Tyson-Douglas revisited

Dude, I don't even know who the hell you are.

Nice to meet ya though.....I guess.

 

Whats often forgotting about this fight is Douglas made one of the greatness comebacks ever.

Been knock down, behide on the cards, and made a great comeback in round 10 to ko Tyson.

 

Much easier said than done my friend. Everyone has the blue print on how to beat Tyson. I can give you a blue print to re-build the world trade centers. Carrying it out is another matter. But you already knew that.

Physically Tyson was very good in this fight. He still had awesome hand speed, power, chin, decent stamina, etc. Tokyo Tyson would have beaten 99.9% of the fighters in boxing history. He was a very good fighter. But Douglas was just that .1% that night (still not an ATG however). It wasn't about Tyson being bad - it was about Douglas being excellent.

In fact, I can only say with confidence that 1996 Holyfield (not even the younger, fitter, immaturely brawling Holy) would have beaten Tokyo Tyson for sure. Any of the other fighters from 90s would have a good chance of losing to Tyson (e.g. Lennox would only be a 4-3 favorite in my book).

Tyson's greatest weakness IMO is he never could change his STRATEGY in the middle of the fight when his opponent is outboxing / outmaneuvering him. Sad part is, the blue print to do that was EASY -and for a physical phenomenon like Tyson - carrying it out would be easier (but the blue print is mental whereas carrying out is more physical).

Douglas boxed really well that night and few fighters (including better ones) could have replicated the BOXING (as opposed to FIGHTING - there's a difference) of Douglas. As an example, call me crazy, but I consider Douglas a better BOXER than Lennox Lewis - but I consider Lennox Lewis a much, much greater FIGHTER than Douglas (even Tokyo Douglas). Lewis the figher has that awesome power. Lewis the boxer is taken into account without his power (which is ridiculous right - it is like defining Frazier without his left hook). Oh well.

 

I tend to agree.

I think that if this had not hapened he would have challenged for the title in good form and would have taken some beating, whether it was against Holyfield, Bowe or whoever.

 

Yeah, but regardless of the cards Douglas flogged Tyson from pillar to post. At the time of stoppage it was Tyson - 82-88, 87-86 and 86-86 bearing in mind Douglas was down in the 8th. Imagine if Tyson would have limped home and somehow been declared a split decision winner :yikes

 

Douglas, Holyfield, Tua, Mercer , Bowe ect would have all been too much for Tyson. Douglas was just fortunate to get to him first. Tyson does not like to be pushed back and i would have loved to seen Tyson fight one of these elte fighters so we could have seen. Tyson has never beaten an elite nor great fighter that was in their peak. Even if Tyson was at his best against Douglas, huggers on every forum would have made excuses, just pathetic. The man was a very good fighter and i still love to watch footage of peak Tyson fight, but to say that he beats great fighters like Ali, Foreman ect is bordiline ignorant.

 

Don't swell his head too much

Simple fact is I was welcoming him (back), nothing more. I know full well he writes some top-notch opinions, at times.... so it's natural for me to attempt an irritation or two ('tis my way).

Nice a defender came to his rescue, although I doubt it was needed

 

Oh? Nice way to welcome someone back!!!

...........and rather come to his rescue i was actually coming to yours

 

I know I can be a rather pleasant sort at times

, I doubt either is necessary. Hopefully Sal will keep posting for a bit!

 

I don't think Tyson gets as much credit for the Ruddock fights as he should. As you indicated, Ruddock was the clear #2 contender; he was big, strong, and durable, and he was the guy that everyone else in the division was avoiding - save for Lewis! Razor Ruddock challenged Bowe twice to a fight for the right to determine a clear-cut mandatory contender, and Bowe declined both offers. It's easy for people to say Ruddock was a bum or that he was all hype just because he got blown out by Lewis the way that he did. But Ruddock was a good, solid, dangerous fighter, and even those kinds of fighters get beat and knocked out. Getting knocked out by Lennox Lewis is nothing to be ashamed of, and he caught Ruddock early and surprised him.

But Tyson's two wins over Ruddock were damn impressive. Tyson earned his top ranking with those wins.

 

I don't think Holyfield had the tools to beat Tyson the way Buster did. And I think Buster would have beaten Holyfield if he had trained the way he did for Tyson. Buster basically had the same tools that Riddick Bowe had: long jab, size, crackling right hand, better movement than Bowe! He just fell apart after the Tyson fight.

 

Good analysis. Douglas was awesome that night. The moves he had, the fluidity, the way he put his punches together was amazing. Many people compare Buster Douglas that night to a prime Larry Holmes. But I don't think a prime Larry Holmes would have been able to fight as effectively against Tyson as Douglas did that night. Douglas had more power, and he put his punches together better than Holmes; Holmes was more left jab and right hand; Buster was throwing right hooks, left hooks, combinations, e.t.c. He was actually outboxing and outslugging Tyson - something that you had to do in my opinion to get Tyson's respect. I don't think Larry Holmes could have done that. He wouldn't be able to get Tyson's respect the way Douglas did.

 

[QUOTE]Originally Posted by AnthonyJ74
Good analysis. Douglas was awesome that night. The moves he had, the fluidity, the way he put his punches together was amazing. Many people compare Buster Douglas that night to a prime Larry Holmes. But I don't think a prime Larry Holmes would have been able to fight as effectively against Tyson as Douglas did that night. Douglas had more power, and he put his punches together better than Holmes; Holmes was more left jab and right hand; Buster was throwing right hooks, left hooks, combinations, e.t.c. He was actually outboxing and outslugging Tyson - something that you had to do in my opinion to get Tyson's respect. I don't think Larry Holmes could have done that. He wouldn't be able to get Tyson's respect the way Douglas did.[/QUOTE]


I totally agree.

 

It was a joke on my part, though I am not far from the truth of couse.
It seem on the "Cards" any way all Tyson had to do was stand up to retain his title. atsch

It would have been a robbery of couse.

 

Tyson was probably a bit sloppy in this fight, and the result was him getting the **** punched out of him by a fairly ordinary heavyweight.
Douglas had an excellent jab though, I'll give him that.

Looking back, 1990 was probably a better time for heavyweight boxing than 2008 is likely to turn out, but Tyson and Douglas in particular wont be making my top 10 all-time list, though they put on a decent fight.
And historically it was the biggest upset ever.
Importantly, in those days it was the undisputed heavyweight title, one champion, and that's where the nostalgia is most justified.