Tyson Fury, a note of caution from history

Tyson Fury's always had more credibility than Joshua and Wilder, since he beat Wladimir in Germany.
The problem was he went away and put on 140 pounds of fat, drank beer, did cocaine, and had problems with depression.
And now he's back.
Yes, he's certainly a few achievements and wins shy of being an all-time great, and there are men out there who are within reason maybe capable of defeating him (Joshua foremost among them) but he's very good at least.

At heavyweight, who exactly are the "ATGs" ? .... and what have they achieved ?
More than Fury, I gather, but with some of them they might not have achieved a lot more.
And, as for losses, well, Lennox Lewis lost to Oliver McCall and Hasim Rahman ..... Mike Tyson lost to Buster Douglas ...... Wladimir Klitschko lost to Ross Purrity, Corrie Sanders and Lamon Brewster years before he lost to Fury ..... Evander Holyfield lost to Bowe and Moorer years before he lost to Lewis ...... These guys were all picking up losses.
Yet they are regarded as ATGs.

 

I'd agree with this, but the H2H implications of this performance cannot be denied.

Not many Heavyweights in history would have a comfortable time with this version of Fury. I personally think he has most trouble with shorter boxers such as Tyson and Frazier etc.

 

Fury's father is asking for him to retire, I don't agree with that but it is a possibility. I would take the AJ fight and then maybe call it a day.

It's like this, he may not have the deepest of résumés but he fights to the level of the opponent he's in with.

He's beat two of the most dominant champs on record whether Wilder's reign can be criticised or not.

Having a better résumé than Fury doesn't automatically mean they would beat him in a H2H bout.

With his combination of size, skill and determination he would be a nightmare for any HW in history.

 

it’s pathetic how anyone can get a title shot and NOT be in the top ten. How did he even get his shot w out beating a top ten guy? This is why the systems broken. Make fun of the 50s fighters down all you want but at least they competed against the best available.

 

Some good points written here. I'm thrilled to bits for Tyson Fury,though,and look how things have turned out !! If someone in the not so recent past told me that in the near future two British boxers would go on to dominate the heavyweight scene in the near future,I'd have laughed. Brilliant !!

 

Wladimir Klitschko was 39 years old and was coming off quite a poor performance against Bryant Jennings, but not many of the young heavyweights' promoters were at all confident in taking on Wlad back then. Most of them were waiting for Wlad to retire.
Wilder was already WBC 'champion' back then but his promoters wanted no part of Wlad and openly said he wasn't ready.
Fury went to Klitschko's backyard and beat him clearly without even getting into top gear. He completely shut Wlad down. A fight almost everyone expected him to lose.
Yes, a dull fight, but that was a sure sign that Fury was a proper talent.

Fury messed up after that but he's back now and with a win over a dangerous unbeaten KO artist like Wilder he deserves to be regarded as the champion.

If he fights and wins against Joshua he may well be deserving of the "ATG" tag.
Joshua, despite the loss to Ruiz, is in with a shout too, especially if he beats Fury.

 

I like Fury but have only been won over by him in the last 2 years.

before that He, like much of the rest of the S-HWs, are 2cd and 3rd rate fighters.

Fury is Definitely Thee Most Improved fighter in that division and undoubtedly leads the division.

but that division is so average at best, with the exception of a few of them, LL, Klits, Bowe and a couple of others, with Fury now biting at their heels.

But to honestly compare with the hundreds of special talents over the last 130 years from Fly - Heavyweight is ridiculous. you've got...

- dozens of Elite fighters in everyone of these weights divisions,
- you've got hundreds of Greats in these weight groups
- and thousands of great 'noted' fighters among these weights.

the S-HW Class only has a few hundred or so fighters to speak of, and again, ONLY a Few of them are Top class, the rest are average at best and many, many of them sadly worse.

So Fury, whom I like and support, and give the credit where it's due, is Not an Elite Fighter and NEVER will be.

He Might find himself thrown around with the Klits and Bowe's of the S-HW's, but he will never compare with the Ali's, Louis', JJWs, the Grebs, Hagler's, SSRs, the Leonards, the Peps, the Charles', the Burley's and unsung feared fighters, the Wilde's, the Lynch's and dozen's & dozen's more.

Fury is the coming King, possibly, among the Giants,
but none of them will ever be ranked even close to the King's of the traditional sized men and divisions, their just not as talented overall!

 

It's going to be hell ranking Fury if he beats Joshua and then retires undefeated.

 

What has this thread got to do with classic?

 

I think this is reasonable advice, in general.

It's easy to be hyped up after an unexpectedly convincing feat; only to watch the tables get turned in an altogether different challenge, later on down the line. The views on speculative matchups being made with the Greats of the past, seems fairly par for the course, right now.

The dust will settle.

What I would say, however, is that I don't really think of Fury, up to this point, as a hype job; as having ever really been part of a program of careful moves and marketing. In terms of his top challenges, Fury has more or less been considered the underdog for the last 5 years. But, he just goes out there and does what he says he's going to do and, so far, he has not disappointed.

He is the real deal. Beating him is going to take some doing.

If he suffers a defeat from hereon in, then whoever manages that will deserve a good deal of credit, because it won't be easy and I doubt it could sensibly be claimed that Fury had been oversold, in real terms, as a result.

 

So, if Fury goes on to beat Joshua and Usyk, and then retires undefeated - you don't think he deserves to be called an elite fighter?

 

Historical perspective.

 

yes among the S-HWs...
No Overall.

not a slant on Fury, just simply a fact of life, Fury and these guys aren't as good Skill wise than thousands of truly skilled fighters over 130 plus year Boxing History.

there are Lots of Greats, but some are Skillfully Greater than others, and in most cases it plain to See.

achievements and alphabet titles, is not what I'm talking about, I am talking about Literal Visible Actual Comparable Skill, H2H, P4P.

that is what makes Great fighters, not compu box, stats or alphabet titles... you can take a 'great' from a poor area, an alphabet titles, a compu box leader and place him against a great noted fighter from a Great Era, 1 Title to compete for, from a time where losses were expected and titles and/or title chances were hard fought out over dozens of great, top and noted hungry fighters.

well you pair off these two extremes and we know with a great level of confidence who whining, that's the only ratings or ranking that come close to actual life