Tyson Fury has never defended a world heavyweight title

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Perkin Warbeck, Apr 3, 2020.


  1. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Active Member Full Member

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    Normally you might expect further improvement with more and more fights but Hrgovic may be a special case due to his extensive amateur experience.

    I don't think it would have been wise to put him in with Joshua in 2017 or 2018 but I think he is a viable candidate right now if they can find some way to stage a fight around the coronavirus pandemic. He seems like a more intriguing matchup than Kubrat Pulev for sure.
     
  2. Tramell

    Tramell Hypocrites Love to Pray & Be Seen. Mathew 6:5 Full Member

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    Pray for salvation and to keep from going to hell,- Prayer has a greater purpose.
    & as you stated he is the champeen of:
    Did I state they were more than that? If, so please copy so I can recant, if not then you are arguing against yourself, not me.

    and how many is that? And does that quantity outdo quality? Again he is the HW champ of what kind of an era? According to you see below-
    So according to you Fury is the King of a division of Contenders. To which is why you limited names here, choosing to use (contender chief contender or that champ for 6/9 years) I would do the same if I was defending this argument, no since in naming names. They as U state are all contenders.

    Did you read where I said he was not the best in this (current) division? No, you didn't. I wrote: He's one of the 2 best of this era, nothing more. That is your choice to make him better than AJ. The 2 haven't fought.

    Here is how you described Wilder:
    Here is how I described Wilder:
    We'd have to raise Wilder to a credible champ in order to think the Lineal was defended against a worthy competitor.
    So I am wrong for saying competitor while you are right for saying contender, gotcha!

    That's How I see it. Somehow Lineal is supposed to mean more than any other belt. I don't side one way or the other, rather try be objective. If Lineal is so much more, than what I wonder what is Fury's purpose fighting for any other belt. And those who give an impassioned defense of Lineal- should in no way be found on another thread defending someone with a IBF,WBA,WBC,IBO,IBA,Ring, WBO.

    I guess that is why I so loved the introduction of Mike Tyson. Not Tyson Fury, though he is a nifty fighter. Unlike Mike -- He went after them all so dumb boxing fans like me can say- I might not know how valuable the Lineal title is...But I knew how to define a division that's been cleaned out.


    It's a nice accomplishment to which I give credit, but am skeptical of all who write it- Not you cause I don't know your opinion on the 2 he beat. In other words I take issue with fans that will call Kilitchko every derogatory name on how boring he was, fought in a weak era,- double down & say Wilder is the worst boxing hype who fought the weakest opposition ever...Then they turn around and use these 2 in order to justify Fury's resume. IMO that is hypocrisy.

    Again I quoted you- because I agree...solid when a person didnt lose a belt in the ring. Nonetheless he did lose it-unlike an Ali who lost it by standing for something-outside of boxing. Demanding we include his personal demons and fights outside the ring as an extra accomplishment. As if he is the 1st to encounter depression & drugs...and beat both.

    Have U ever seen some who uplift Klitschko & Wilder in order to justify Fury's 32 fight history? I have and that is my skepticism lies at- fans who straddle both sides of the fence/argument aka "Ya know Fury beat the 2 best....even though they aint worth a gosh darn!
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2020
  3. Ra's Al-Ghul

    Ra's Al-Ghul The one and only! Full Member

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    This "linear stuff" is just imaginary and not reality. These which claim it, got at some point a real sanctionned world title or that one they succeeded, so it is based on the sanctioning boxing bodies.
    Were Calzaghe and Hopkins lineal champion in Light-Heavyweight?
    It got upgraded to extend to give Pacquaio "world titles" in two more divisions than he really achieved (as Barrera had vacated the WBC one in Featherweight before and Hatton held only the IBO title in Light-Welterweight) to rate him higher and promote his fights.

    He lost it in chicken out of the Klitschko revenge-match, not once, but twice and sabotage it with all he could do. Just as never did a mandatory defence, which is the cause he got stripped (like Hatton choosing the high money but low risk opponents). Just as he lost the British and Commonwealth titles by not defending these vs. Price.
    Some would describe both a cowardice (as he pulled out of the Ustinov fight one day before, when who looked relative in shape).

    And I'm not convincened if he really will finally defend the WBC title, against Wilder. Now he have delayed this again for three months. If it happens, I wouldn't be surprised if the last bout get turned around and he knocked out (as he almost was in the first).
    Each of them would have been stopped by Sanders in the first 3 rounds.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2020
  4. navigator

    navigator "Billy Graham? He's my man." Full Member

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    If that works as ointment to your frustrations over Fury's success, you better keep rubbing it in.

    Most everybody else with a serious interest in the sport recognizes Fury as lineal, however.





    That remark addressed the thread in general (there are guys who seem to think that there is more than one guy with a credible claim to the title of division's champeen), not you specifically.


    I'll make it simple. You stated "What good does it do to have the lineal or ABC -with a resume of 32 fights?", as if only having 32 bouts precludes championship status. Which, of course, it doesn't.


    He's the best until AJ proves otherwise. The onus is on AJ, Fury's the champeen.


    Wilder doesn't have to have been the champ to make a worthy challenger. Was Bob Pastor not a worthy challenger to Louis? Now, I grant you, Pastor was a better technical guy than Wilder, but he'd never been the HW champ.


    These parts weren't addressed to me, but I'll comment;

    He's not fighting for other belts. He's fighting the top contenders.

    He even told Wilder he could keep his green belt. Fury didn't want the belt so much as he wanted what Wilder represented, the scalp of one of the perceived biggest threats to his status as world's champ.


    My man, all the belts that aren't with Fury were with him 4 years ago. And, I gotta remind you, he never lost them in the ring. He'll take those trinkets back as soon as Eddie lets his golden goose in there with the economic threat.


    Myself, I've always given Wilder his due credit. Wlad, too, for that matter. Doesn't mean I can't be critical of them, as a critically-minded fan of the fights and fighters. I like to think I'm generally fair-minded.


    Ali lost it because he was terrified of Elijah. The conscientious objector stuff is nice storytime. We don't know how much of a conscientious objector Ali might have been without the influence of Elijah bearing down on him and threatening his loved ones.

    Ali wished he'd stood by Malcolm years later for a reason. He just didn't have the nerve to do it at the time. And I am a pretty big Ali aficionado, in saying that about the man. But critically-minded, as I said.
     
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  5. Tramell

    Tramell Hypocrites Love to Pray & Be Seen. Mathew 6:5 Full Member

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    ok gotcha! my bad
    in theory yes. technically speaking it's a new norm. ATG' before this era usually had more than 30 fights. In an instance like Andre Ward, I would then place Fury with him- if/when he beats AJ- So I can say quality over quantity, until then 32 fights with a lineal that he kept while doing drugs isn't my kind of title. And beating Wilder I give credit cause I love Wilder's power. It's those who down Wilder, not sure if U did before hand.. Wilder cant be a bad champ and a good notch on the resume at the same time is my point.


    In your opinion, others too!
    I think this is the part where we are addressing each other in general but overall the board and fans who come to such a conclusion?
    When I saw worthy, I am speaking of- according this board's consensus.
    Was he worthy? Not here he wasn't. TO me he was/is.
     
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  6. navigator

    navigator "Billy Graham? He's my man." Full Member

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    I don't think Wilder is a champ period, because he's never been. Might well have been if Fury wasn't around. Instead, he's been a top contender, a threat to Fury's crown, a monstrous punching force, and Fury despatched him (although he's obliged to do it yet again, after beating him two different ways already).

    Guys just don't fight as much as they used to. Gary Russell Jr fights once a year, and he's never done anything remotely as impressive as Fury has.

    Doing drugs? Plenty of guys have done recreational drugs while boxing and being great at it. Whitaker went in hard. If you're talking about PEDs, I already addressed that, don't need to repost it. Being a fair guy, though, I never slam any of these guys who popped, even if I don't much care for them (see Dillian Whyte), because I realise that it's rife in sports in general and that testing negative doesn't necessarily mean you're clean.

    I don't put down Wilder. There are plenty who don't put him down, even if they may not appear on this forum all that much.

    The best is the champeen, man! Until the #1 contender proves otherwise. That's AJ, bring him on.
     
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  7. Tramell

    Tramell Hypocrites Love to Pray & Be Seen. Mathew 6:5 Full Member

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    Fury's a helluva boxer. I'll never deny that. One win away from me eating the whole crow pie.
     
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  8. navigator

    navigator "Billy Graham? He's my man." Full Member

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    Well, you seem like a solid fellow. One of those who can admit when he was wrong about a guy instead of harboring resentment over it. A kudos for that.
     
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  9. lefthandlead

    lefthandlead Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He might of surpassed AJ but definitely not Wlad.
    AJ and Wlad shouldn't be in the same sentence this early in AJ's career. Maybe later. Lewis, Wlad, Holmes were long time dominate champions.
    And Fury doesn't belong to that class...yet.
     
  10. navigator

    navigator "Billy Graham? He's my man." Full Member

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    I should clarify, to a point @Tramell made earlier;

    The "it" Ali lost when he refused the draft was the WBC and WBA. The lineage never left him 'til he met Joe Frazier in the ring. In his heart, Joe knew he needed to beat Ali to be the man. Just as Joshua knows, in his heart, that he needs to beat Fury.
     
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  11. navigator

    navigator "Billy Graham? He's my man." Full Member

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    Whether the bout is held in Vegas or Saudi, Anthony Joshua's dreams will lay dead in the desert.

     
  12. Tramell

    Tramell Hypocrites Love to Pray & Be Seen. Mathew 6:5 Full Member

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    True I am aware he was the lineal as is the case with Fury. 2 boxers stopped briefly for their own reasons- Came back no ABC belt but a lineal.

    I'm not pro-lineal. I respect it, but not how I rate great fighters. For me one can't stay away for a year, two or 3 then demand to be called the real champ. It happens, but I don't roll like that. When Floyd retired and came back, same thing. I knew he was the man when he left, but active fighters get my accolades, not boxers on a hiatus.
     
  13. Ra's Al-Ghul

    Ra's Al-Ghul The one and only! Full Member

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    He should fight Powetkin (if who knocks Whyte out) rather than Ruiz Jr. or Parker.
     
  14. Ra's Al-Ghul

    Ra's Al-Ghul The one and only! Full Member

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    Many boxer would prefer to lose it in the ring (like Tyson and Dempsey among others) and would describe this cowardice acting. It is like Rahman didn't want the Lewis rematch, but to do his mandatory defence against Tyson (which had earned him more money).
     


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