Tyson Fury vs Agit Kabayel likely for December 5th

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Chuck Norris, Nov 2, 2020.

  1. Reg

    Reg Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,210
    3,536
    Feb 5, 2016
    It means exactly what it sounds like. It's not a hard concept to grasp. If he struggled with lower tier fighters like Wallin because that was his true level then he would have lost against Wilder, Wlad, and Chisora.
     
  2. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    53,709
    13,978
    Nov 24, 2005
    I'm surprised so many apparent hardcore fans of heavyweight boxing are acting like Kabayel's a complete nobody.
    That was quite true of Schwarz and Wallin, but Kabayel has been on the radar for a few years now.
    I wouldn't have him in my top 10, and he's nothing to get excited about, but he's clearly been in the next tier down for a while now.
    He's a solid top 20 type.
    RING magazine have Oscar Rivas in their top 10. That's fair enough but I don't think Rivas's record is any better than Kabayel's. Rivas is 26-1 with a win over Jennings and a distance loss to Whyte. Kabayel is 20-0 with a win over Chisora and four European title wins.
    And people are acting like he's some completely obscure fighter ..... ?

    Like I've said before, it smacks of nationality prejudice. If the guy was American, British or from one of the ex-Soviet or ex-East Bloc nations, he'd be given more respect and probably have a ton of annoying fanboys.
    But as a German heavyweight of Kurdish or Turkish origin, he's automatically considered a bum.
     
    kostya by ko and Inglis_1 like this.
  3. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum: Reject The New Normal Staff Member

    171,876
    102,299
    Nov 23, 2013
    Quite frankly, Kabayel if he fights on the front foot. Which he does very adeptly, might end up being a nightmare pick for Fury. Sure he fights mainly on the backfoot now, but the win that put him on the map, he put on a masterful display of effective aggression and non stop pressure, against a much taller opponent.
     
    Wizbit1013 and Unforgiven like this.
  4. DavidC77

    DavidC77 Active Member Full Member

    1,010
    679
    Aug 30, 2018
    Are you serious??

    'Lineal' has nothing to do with being in the top 1, top 2 or top anything (sigh...)

    It's a LINE of progression of fighters who have beaten 'the man', hence LINEal...

    Dear, oh dear...

    Here's my post explaining why I would consider AJ to be the lineal champion:

    This content is protected
     
    Mendoza likes this.
  5. DavidC77

    DavidC77 Active Member Full Member

    1,010
    679
    Aug 30, 2018
    So theoretically, it could even be a day's notice?
     
  6. ShovelHook

    ShovelHook Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,028
    5,204
    Jul 22, 2019
    A new lineage is established by the #1 and #2 fighters in a division fighting to determine the lineal champ... Thought you'd have known that basic fact.
     
    Wizbit1013 likes this.
  7. Vegan Beast

    Vegan Beast Member Full Member

    444
    400
    Aug 19, 2020
    Ugh, I don't know about that, I'll have to see what the undercard is. May not watch.
     
  8. DavidC77

    DavidC77 Active Member Full Member

    1,010
    679
    Aug 30, 2018
    Perhaps but I wouldn't call it a basic fact because it certainly isn't widely known within the sport (just look at discussions on this forum about the lineal title) and it isn't one that makes a great deal of sense either.

    For example, in a new lineage who is it that establishes who the #1 and #2 fighters are?

    Is it the WBA, WBC, IBF or some other organisation? Because whichever one it is is undermined by another organisation recognising someone else as the #1 and #2.

    But then again, I don't think the lineal title always makes a great deal of sense either.

    If you think of the lineal champion as 'the guy who beat the man' which, for me, is the best way of doing so then there should be no such thing as a vacant lineal championship fight as neither boxer is 'the man'.

    The line, something that connects two points, can only be established when 'the man' is beaten.

    As much as I admire Tyson Fury and think he's the best heavyweight out there right now, it always seemed a bit of a joke for him to come back after 2 and a half years out of the ring, having ballooned up to 30 stone and to then proclaim that he was still the lineal champion and have Sefer Seferiferiferiferiferiferi fighting for the lineal heavyweight championship of the world.

    It undermines the title itself.

    I think once the lineal champion is no longer active and has chosen to withdraw from the sport, it would make far more sense for him to no longer be regarded as the lineal champion.

    When Joshua beat Klitschko, the most recent lineal champion who was still active, and became the IBF, WBA and IBO champion belts he then became 'the man' (in my eyes) in the absence of Fury but he wasn't yet the lineal champion because he hadn't beaten 'the man'.

    I would regard Ruiz as becoming the lineal champion for defeating 'the man', i.e. Joshua who then became the lineal champion for the first time when he won the rematch.

    But I think the whole 'lineal champion' thing is flawed and not something to be taken seriously.

    If I was a boxer, I would much prefer to hold one of the WBC, WBA and IBF belts and not be the lineal champion than be the lineal champion and not hold any of them.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2020
  9. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

    54,257
    9,264
    Jun 29, 2007
    Usually, fighters who win the Euro title abandon it. Here's the deal, 3 of Fury's last 4 lineal title defenses were vs Schwartz, Wallin ( who wasn;t very good probably deserved a re-match ) and now Kaybel who had zero talk until he was picked. Only Wilder was a good pick. Now he's a mess.

    Barely edging Chisora if that is your best win should not get you a lineal title shot. Any independent rankings besides Box Rec, which will say Kaybel is ranked #36th in the world?

    No one cares about which ethnic Kaybel is. You're the only one bringing it up. He's one of 40+ undefeated heavies, and some are better than he is.

    Fury needs stoppage here, if he goes the distance with the modest punching Kaybel its not going to help whatever legacy he's trying to build. A loss would be disastrous which is why he was picked.

    This fight rips off the fans. I bet there is no VADA testing. Watch the judges if this one is close.
     
    Power_tek likes this.
  10. Heavy_Hitter

    Heavy_Hitter Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,355
    3,994
    Jul 7, 2018
    Why would Fury let Wallin turn his face into pizza on purpose?
    His fights with Wlad and Wilder were pretty close, except Wilder 2.
    And Wlad was ancient.
     
    Yaiyr Alexander likes this.
  11. chico g

    chico g Boxing Addict Full Member

    7,443
    2,087
    Oct 18, 2008
    Seriously hope the boxing Commission will be checking Fury's glove if this fight comes off.
     
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    91,241
    10,180
    Mar 21, 2007
    People are strange.

    If Fury fights:

    Wilder
    Kabayel
    Joshua
    Joshua

    You people are still going to complain about Kabayel :lol:

    So bizarre.
     
  13. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    53,709
    13,978
    Nov 24, 2005
    Kabayel's just a routine second-tier contender. We're not rating him on how much "talk" he gets. He's a guy who's been there in the background for a while, he's nothing special but he's credible enough.
    People "talk" about Ajagba and Hrgovic, but they don't yet have the credentials Kabayel has.

    The boxrec rankings are crap.
    They rank Chisora at #9 !
    And I had Kabayel winning 8-4 against Chisora.
    Why should Kabayel be ranked 27 places behind Chisora ?
    It's crap.

    I brought it up because I see how British, American, Russian and Ukrainian heavyweights, for example, are held in high esteem whenever they had any moderate success.
    If a 28 year old American had a win over Chisora 3 years ago, and was 20-0 against European opposition, people would build him up every week on this forum, same if he was a Brit.

    Finally Mendoza, you talk about what a disgrace Fury is for fighting Kabayel, but do you remember these names ...... ?

    Francesco Pianeta
    Mariusz Wach
    Alex Leapai

    Albert Sosnowski
    Manuel Charr
    Kevin Johnson

    etc.
    etc.

    ?
     
  14. Eggman

    Eggman "The cream of the crop! Nobody does it better! Full Member

    4,171
    3,654
    Dec 2, 2015
    Kabayel had less trouble with chisora than usyk. It’s a fine defence to set up an AJ showdown

    Lord knows how many times vitali scraped the wbc barrel
     
    Wizbit1013 likes this.
  15. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

    21,121
    29,771
    Mar 3, 2019
    What?