Tyson Fury vs Marciano and Louis

“World class” sure sounds like a meaningful qualification different than merely being above a certain height and weight...

 

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I would not be unduly surprised if Tony Tucker won a decision against Rocky.

 

Neither would I, but presumably we are talking about most likely outcome here?

Which fighter do you have to take the bigger leap of faith with?

 

Prime Dimentrenko!

 

Which I said. But he was still someone who had obtained world level, so it is FACTUALLY incorrect that Cunnigham would have been the best world level guy he faced. Shkor was.

And only a year before he had beaten the highly regarded Rusty Payne. So no, FACTUALLY incorrect that he was a journeyman at this time.

Again, never said that he was. Cunningham was just beaten by Adamek before Fury and did not rate in the top ten by any organization either. The point is they were both world ranked at a time.

Actually, you are wrong.

Look, we get it, you don't like Marciano. That is fine, but here are the facts:

49-0 with 43 knockouts.

6 wins against 4 ATG fighters, all of whom were champions or ranked at the time. 5 inside the distance.

6 total title defenses.

Never fought big contenders because they kept losing to the guys he fought, and he almost always only fought the very best.

Bones chips removed, but crushed no bones. All right.

 

Hey Janitor,

On a side note, what is the highest Vingo was rated? Just asking because Wiki says that he was rated after his fight with Modzele, and sourced an article that said as much. I know that he was nowhere near top ten, more a regional guy and prospect, but I am curious as to how deeply they did the ratings back then and how high he got.

Thanks. No worries if you don't know.

 

Wait, didn't Fury KTFO Cunningham? A 6-, 210 pounder with an 82" reach. The sort of come from behind win that classicsts are always demanding?

 

It was an awesome win imo.

I don’t think people are downplaying the actual victory. I think they’re pointing to the fact that Fury got knocked down by one of his smallest opponents, and how that illustrates that his size isn’t an automatic domination factor.

 

You presuming to teach me about Marciano ,that's funny.

Try and understand this, being ranked for a month 3 years ago does not make you a world class fighter 3 years later! Shkor was a journeyman when he fought Marciano and at the end of his career he would have one more figth then retire.
If you are going to quote me quote me correctly.This is what I said.

"Cunningham would be the tallest heavyweight of any class ,with the biggest reach that Marciano ever faced"

Not this

"so it is FACTUALLY incorrect that Cunnigham would have been the best world level guy he faced. Shkor was."
Even if I had said what you thought I said I would still be right because Shkor was not world level when he lost to Marciano! It's that ****ing simple!

2005 Cunningham no2
2006 Cunningham no2
2006 Cunningham no1
2007 Cunningham no1
2008 Cunningham no1
2009 Cunningham no1
2010 Cunningham no1
2011 Cunningham no2
Eight straight years either ranked number one or two.Does being ranked for one month in one year at the bottom of the top ten equal that?

Commonsense ain't that common!
Marciano's ATG opponents
Charles 33 and past his best
Louis 36 having his last fight
Moore 39/40?[according to his mother]I'll take 39
Walcott 38 &39 having his last two fights.
Average age 36 years and 4 months.

 

Well I have to, because you apparently know nothing at all about him, or even boxing. In fact, you seem to be on here solely to forward an agenda...

Here is what I mean. A "journeyman" is literally someone who travels to others hometowns, usually to lose. One back from the Walcott fight, Shkor had beaten the highly regarded Rusty Payne. No, not a journeyman. In fact, there was no part of his career in which he could be categorized as such. You don't even know what the word means. Some knowledge of the sport you have.

In any event, lots of guys quit, voluntarily or no, after the Rock took their souls.

I still don't know what you are talking about. "..of any class." I guess it is your poor choice of wording.

And again, Cunningham was not world ranked when he lost to Fury, which is what we are talking about. Period.

It doesn't have to. That was not a metric we discussed.

Quite frankly, you appear to be some sort of raving anti-Marciano lunatic. Or perhaps you have another agenda?

And this is your subjective bull****. It doesn't matter. The facts:

6 wins against 4 ATG opponents, all champions or top contenders at the time he faced them.

Record: 49-0 with 43 knockouts.

Deal.

 

they both chop fury down, fury is way too inactive to keep it real.

Tysons best bet is to go roughhouse and cheat with wrestling move, and hope he doesnt get DQ.

 

Marciano was a champion wrestler in high school, and freakishly strong. The Vingo and Shkor fight show that he could not be bullied by big men. Where I Fury, I would steer way clear of this tactic, which would be a loser for him.

 

You're the ignoramous who stated Marciano targeted opponents arms. lol You don't even know he beat both Layne and Lastarza by attacking and concentrating on their bodies!
I first watched Marciano on film in1964 when I bought a collection of his fights from the old Black Hawk studios.
I've three books on him and have seen all the available footage of him many times.
I boxed for around 20 years ,have a decent collection of books and fights.I have spoken to Don Cockell about Rocky,and had conversations with Reg Gutteridge,and Harry Gibbs about him.This doesn' t make me an expert, I'm not I'm just a fan of the sport, but I believe I know more than you do about it judging by your fan posts!
You are just a fan boy who puts Marciano on a pedestal and repeats silly fairy tales about him and someone who gets their info from Box Rec.
Why do you keep putting up Rocky's record ,do you think any real boxing fan wouldn't know it off by heart?
Its like some mantra you keep repeating a comfort blanket, and it's very childish.
Marciano was a great champion and a fine man he ducked nobody,he doesnt need this irrational and immature hero worship and if he were alive today I think he would be embarassed by it ,as you would be if you had an ounce of self awareness in you!

 

Vingo was 189lbs. Fury for the Wlad fight was 247lbs 58lbs heavier!
Marciano was not a champion wrestler, he was good at it but not a champion his sport before boxing was baseball and some football.

 

Dude, you don't even know what a journeyman is.

I keep putting Marciano's record up because you appear to be some raving anti-Mariciano lunatic (or maybe something else). The Rock is one of the elite of the elite, and does not need your approval.

As for my "hero worship," if your dumb-**** ass would have actually read my original post, you would know that I do not believe that he could beat Fury, and rate him a hair below the great Joe Louis. So much for "hero-worship."

It is not my fault that you don't know what a journeyman is, did not know that Shkor was a former contender, and undervalue Marciano for, well, whatever reason.

Bottom line is that his great achievements stand. He never got to fight big contenders, because he was too busy beating the smaller ATGs who had already mopped them up. There were indeed fights where he beat a big former contender, prospect, or quality gatekeeper, and there is little doubt that he would have murdered Valdez or Baker, who couldn't even get through Archie Moore, and basically, where nothing special.

Good luck to you in the bizarre anti-Marciano keyboard warrior existence you have chosen to lead. No one really cares.

And yes, Shkor is an impressive addition to the record, along with Muscato, Vingo, Ted Lowry, Bill Wilson, and a couple of others who were not world-beaters, but good fighters that were forgotten in the light of his world-level fights.