Tyson Haters Betray a stunning Lack of Boxing Judgement!!!!

When Blackburn died during WWII, Louis remain on top for almost 5 years after the fact.

 

First off, Douglas is more like 6'4 and not 6'3. He's taller than Holmes and Ali. While his stance was a bit wider than Holmes or Ali, that allowed quickly shuffle and pivot, rather than move on rhythm. It's not the exact same style, but Douglas is still fighting like a big man. And he looks much taller than Tubbs does on film to me. Yes, he hunches, exchanges in the mid and inside occasionally. His best asset was just fighting back in general. Douglas fought, boxed, moved, etc. And he had all the tools to do this. He wasn't just out-boxing but out-fighting Tyson. Really, Tyson's glaring weakness on the inside was the biggest thing that was exposed. He was just far too inactive, complacent on the inside and was too squared and had bad leverage. Douglas movement was great, and he pushed or fight off well. He didn't grab or try in-fighting to the extent like Tubbs had. Douglas priority was to fight with that jab 1-2 from the outside, fight off when Tyson comes in, move etc.

What fighter did Tyson face that was taller than 6'5? It's hard to just say he does better with fighters taller than that when the ones he did truly weren't as elite within their skills. Still, Douglas is practically a super-heavyweight. Who knows how he does against Lennox Lewis. That's not the same as fighting Bonecrusher Smith.

Of course, you think Holyfield/Douglas would lose to the best version of Tyson. Most of his fans do. The reality is a prime Tyson lost virtually every round against Douglas. I would think even if Tyson had an off-night or had declined a little that he would've lost either way. Douglas just had his number.

If the Ali-esque fight is not the way to fight him (Not something I dispute or agree with) do you predict Tyson would beat Ali then? Or would Ali's ability/skills allow him to still win with this style. I imagine you'll just say it's a 50/50 fight.

I only predict fighter's taller than Tyson to beat him. I don't know of any fighter shorter than 6'2 that would beat Tyson. Do you? Maybe Sonny Liston?

 

I see where you are coming from but the thing is that some of the fighters who fought Mike that were superior to Buster were not able to showcase their skills or get into their zone the way Buster did. Some of these guys were alot better than they looked against Tyson and it would be a pity to think otherwise.

Tyson's lack of preparation leading up to the fight and lack of intensity in the fight allowed Buster to get into his zone. Before that he never let fighters fight their fight. His occasional lapses were always corrected because his training, discipline and corner kept him from getting into deep. Tyson's timing was slightly off and he was waiting for Buster. That was problem, he was waiting for him. I just watched the fight in it's entirety before this post. Buster fought like he had nothing to lose which made him dangerous but Tyson has discouraging power; he needed to press the action more and initiate. That would have kept Buster from asserting himself the way he did and it would have slowly dragged him into the same lapse that Tyson opponents fell into. Tyson's power when immediately felt typically made fighters far more cautious and they end up fighting Tyson's fight. But Tokyo was different. Mike kept looking for the bomb without bothering to set it up. Watch 8th round. towards the end before Tyson drops him with a right uppercut; Mike throws a right uppercut but doesn't land properly and Buster sort of falls into Mike a few seconds later Mike unleashes another uppercut which floored Buster. He tries the same in the 9th round against the rope which shows that he was looking for his power to bail him out. This fight proves that sometimes it takes more than just natural talent to pull through.

Nobody is unbeatable, but some fighters on any given night can be awfully close to it. Tyson was one of them, as was Ali, as was Louis.

I give Douglas credit because I don't believe that just anybody could have beaten Tyson that night; Bruno wouldn't have. But I give him credit acknowledging that Tyson was off that night. A straight "A" student can get an "F" if he gets high before an exam and bombs the test. Tyson was that straight "A" student.

Douglas's style was supposed to be the antidote in beating Tyson but remember Tyson was trained specifically to beat guys like Douglas. Its a double edged sword. If Mike came off as his usual aggressive self its because he was a 24 year old champion in his prime; he didn't get old overnight but there is a reason why Mayweather trains the way he does. There is a reason why Pacquiao, Klitschko (both), Hopkins always show up in shape. Because it keeps them sharp. Once you neglect that you give your opponent a significant advantage.

 

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle

Was Tyson completely shot against Douglas? Absolutely not

Was he in peak form? Absolutely not

When you look at various events leading up to the fight; Aaron Snowell (Tyson trainer) saying that he wasn't training properly. Tyson looking sloppy against Frank Bruno and in sparring against Oliver Mccall. There's all kinds of anecdotal evidence.

With that said, I think Douglas would have been a tough fight for Tyson at any point. His toughest fight, no doubt. He he had the physical tools that night, and more importantly the willpower that no one else had really possessed to that degree.

And Pete I pretty much agree with most of what your saying, I don't know what we're arguing about here. I guess what I meant to say was that Tyson does better against tall opponents who "fight tall." Douglas, at least against Tyson, didn't really fight tall. He didn't clinch him that often, and he was never lax in the ring. He was very active on the outside, and on the inside as well. That was what gave him the success. He outboxed Tyson and outfought him. His handspeed was a big factor as well.

Go back to the Larry Holmes fight, Biggs, Tucker (Etc). Those guys who just tried to keep Tyson at a distance and then hug him every time he got close - those are the kinds of fighters who will get eaten up, imo.

I didn't say Tyson would definitevely beat Douglas / Holy at his peak, I'm just saying they would at least be more competitive. I think those are both tough fights for him.

Tyson - Ali I think is a pick-em fight, 50/50.

 

Did I say that? Read my posts if your capable of comprehending it.

 

Fair enough, I can't disagree.

The comment about tall fighters being made for him was something that tripped me up because I think Tyson because beats any short fighter that fights like him and after an opponent. Frazier, Marciano, Tua I think all would lose to Tyson. Tall opponents might not be able to handle the speed. A fighter with height, reach, and maybe some coordination could have a chance. Someone like Lennox Lewis (I would favor Tyson, but you get my point). Tyson still had moments where he was having some trouble against Biggs, Tucker, Tillis types. Guys like Berbick, Bruno, and Marvis Frazier would always get slaughtered by Tyson I think.

 

You said this

We all know Douglas biggest problem was motivation. He had more ability and skills than these fighters. And we all know he was a flash in the pan. And he brought it together brilliantly against Tyson. He had shown his "skills" in other fights, but not the necessary willpower nor dedication. His mother passing gave him great inspiration. Of course, Douglas was a great style matchup. But at his best he's still superior to the fighters that Tyson beat previously based on ability. To me, his sole performance against Tyson is good enough to prove this. But there's other film to show something was there.

 

I was a huge Tyson fan back then (who wasnt?), but you gotta call it how you see it otherwise your lying to yourself. Tyson was beat fairly and squarely by Douglas, and any excuses used are pure bull****. If Mike wasnt fit then thats HIS fault. If he didnt prepare well, then thats HIS fault. He put Buster on the broad of his back and the guy did well to get up and fight back (incidently, i personally thought Tyson showed good heart in this fight). Ya just have to give buster credit rather than downgrade mikes performance.

As for an earlier poster talking bout Tyson having great success against big men of 6ft 4 or 5, i couldnt disagree more. Yes, he KO'd tomato cans who were that height but any decent pedigree of fighter of similar height, he had difficulties with.

 

I think Douglas and Tony Tucker are about equal, as evidenced by the fight between the two. Tucker actually won.
I think Douglas improved a bit after that, at least as far as his mental focus for the Tyson fight.

Then, I think Tony Tucker was hampered quite badly by an injured right hand when he fought a prime Tyson in 1987. If Tucker had two good hands that night he might well have ended Tyson's run.
Then again, some people here think Tyson's the only fighter allowed excuses.

 

I agree that Tyson was better than Frazier in the ways that you say,and he'd probably have knocked Frazier out. On the other hand,I do n't think that Tyson would have given Ali as tough a fight as Frazier did. Reason being,that I do n't reckon that Tyson had as much heart as Smokin' Joe. A Tyson - Ali fight would inevitably go into the trenches at some point,and I can't see Tyson coming out of there.

 

And how is that calling Tyson shot?

This is not true at all. He did not have more ability than fighters like Tucker or Tubbs. Your basing this off one performance against Mike Tyson. Douglas had problems in the mental toughness department too.

Nothing superior to a Tucker or Tubbs level fighter

So was Tucker Tyson, Tubbs Tyson, Tillis Tyson, Thomas Tyson, and Biggs Tyson. All very similar stylists.

But that best only came out once against Mike Tyson because he lost to Tucker and he lost to Jesse Ferguson, fighters Tyson beat one sidedly.

No theres not. Theres film to show he was about as good as the other fighters Tyson had previously beat.

 

Did Louis replace Blackburn with Beavis and Butthead?

 

Your ignorance astounds me.
You fail to acknowledge that Tyson sadistically ruined 6'5" undefeated, skillful slickster boxer Tyrell Biggs who was trained by Dundee or how Tyson comprehensively dominated 6'5" undefeated, skillful boxer-puncher Tony Tucker who was trained by Steward.

 

Biggs was trained by Benton and Duva. Steward was not in Tuckers corner during the Tyson fight, but Tyson clearly did well against taller fighters. Most of his opponents were taller than him. What was affective was fighters with some good skills, jab, footwork, ability to punch back in variety, but for the most part Tyson dominated them all.

 

Sorry, I got mixed up with Pinklon Thomas.

But Steward did prepare Tucker for the fight, didn't he?

I agree.