Tyson Haters Betray a stunning Lack of Boxing Judgement!!!!

Great post.:goodThere is a clear difference between the Tyson trained by Rooney and the guy who looked the same physically but who was utterly lost outside the ring and let's say "distracted" inside the ring.

 

A lot of guys on this thread have a pre-programmed bias towards Mike for one reason or another. Many are Lewis fans and don't want Lennox's victories over a faded Tyson to be tarnished. Other's just don't like the guy. Either way, the facts are the facts and Mike Tyson was a completely different fighter with Rooney and Jacobs around.

 

:verysad...you bore me.

 

Disagree completely, theres a massive difference in the degree of sloppiness, lack of jab, movement and combination punching. We'll have to disagree here.

I agree completely. I never said Tyson was the perfect fighter, he was 24 years old, he certainly had room for improvement. The fact Rooney did have to constantly remind him of certain things is proof of it, as I said in a previous post.

Tyson looked like vintage Tyson in 2003 as well.

I dont think anyone is denying this, only that the flaws that surfaced became the fighting style, as opposed to mistakes or subtle flaws within a very tight and strategic fighting style earlier on. Theres a reason Rooney constantly had to remind him of it, because like most punchers, Tyson tended to rely on his power, and forget the process of setting it up.

Definitely. Rooney often commented that Tyson had not reached his full potential, and had showed a lot of different ability in the gym that had not yet come out in his fights.

 

Spinks was really a blown LHW. A perfect fit against Tyson even if people thought Spinks could win due to awkwardness. Tyson absolutely obliterated him and showed zero respect for his power. He just came right after him closing the distance immediately. There's absolutely nothing breathtaking about that fight like most insist when talking about how it's his pinnacle. Spinks was also completely in fear and obviously wanted to be anywhere but that stadium fighting Tyson. The Carl Williams fight is just as a great as performance. Obviously the Spinks fight is a better performance and better name, but that's not relevant because Spinks was no way more of a challenge than Carl Williams and it has nothing to do with performance in a purist sense.

If you think Spinks was his best performance it's because of Tyson's ferociousness.

As for the Bruno fight, I thought Tyson was good but not awful or great. It wasn't his worst performance and the reason he got stunned is because Bruno was basically hitting and holding... kind of hard to move your head in that situation. I think Tyson didn't quite go to the body like he should have but his head-movement was there and his combinations looked good. You can see any Tyson defensive highlight video and plenty of Bruno footage will be in there.

I agree with the bold, but like My2Sense says you can mark a decline earlier if you'd like (In the same manner done here). People don't though... he has had some bad performances. Even a couple within a few fights within a period of time. He has these lapses in fights, especially sometimes in the more later rounds. But there's a pedestal and standard to fit this description from sometime between his loss and the Spinks fight even if there is no evident decline. But it has to fit somewhere... otherwise Tyson may've lost in his prime.

 

Finally something specific. I thought this move was great and it was good timing even if it was subtle. But I think there are plenty of other moments we can refer to show his sharpness and timing, especially in a KO. I think the Spinks KO is very aesthetically pleasing. I actually like his KO of Williams and Holmes more, personally. But that's just subjective. I still don't think there's anything solely unique about the Spinks performance, but I recognize your point of how it was a nicely executed finish.

 

Or pre-programmed to think Tyson went **** after Rooney. None of us were pre-programmed to be bias. I love Tyson, he's one of my favorite fighters. I think he's a great fighter H2H and he ranks among the 10 best HWs on my list.

I am not a Lewis fan. This has nothing to do with protecting wins against a 2002 Tyson. Tyson was completely and utterly past it at at this point. Only a fool would say otherwise. His stamina was done too then. We can mention specifics all day long when referring to post prison Tyson, and 2000's Tyson. Even his decline after Douglas is more noted. Nobody was talking about this before Tyson lost an up until Douglas. It was only distractions outside the ring talk and he had all the mania going on during the Spinks coverage anyway. Same day different ****.

Not your mother

 

Tyson didn't regress from being invincible to losing almost every round against Douglas.

Douglas was the perfect style for Tyson. He had speed, fairly good power, great footwork and a good feinting. He also had all the technical skills and slickness needed to work the breaks of Tyson. He was motivated, and had a will and reason to fight with his mom dieing.

 

I didn't say he was invincible, and never believed that to be the case; but he did regress. To what degree is debatable, but he definitely wasn't the same guy. Douglas fought a great fight though, and would have given Tyson a tough fight at any point, imo. It's not a foregone conclusion who would have won though.

 

The Tyson story is interesting because of where he came from and the reinforcement that brought him to the top. All the characters in the story made it very interesting. The crazy old man who saved the young phenom from the penal system and nutured him and developed him as a disciplined killing machine in his gym up in the mountains, but the bottom line is behind all these great fighters is a mastermind who programs these atheletes to fight and conduct themselves in a certain way.
Without that discipline they cant be great, especially an individual with the lack of character of Mike Tyson.

 

Your being as biased with this post as you accuse everyone else of being. Tyson showed noone respect in his prime and came forward against every fighter. Spinks just wasnt as mobile and tried to punch back. People didnt have your view of Spinks/Tyson in 88.

I also read a couple writers who were sure Tyson was so far gone that Etienne was going to easily beat him. After the fact, history becomes very distorted based on the outcome.

Had Tyson gone the distance with Spinks or even been forced to fight 3 or 4 rounds, the fight would have been held in higher regard to Tysons legacy, thats for sure. Spinks was coming off of two wins over Larry Holmes and two other fights? He was a heavyweight.
Just like the Holmes win is often distorted because Holmes had been off for so long, even though he was never knocked out again. If only he had one or two tuneups, he would have never been tagged by that righthand.

 

Nothing is a foregone conclusion, but I think that Douglas who was inspired by his mother death that put it all together should be favored against any version of Tyson. He nearly won every round except for the round he got dropped (Where he was perfectly fine).

To me it's more obvious Tokyo Douglas beats any version of Tyson than prime Mosley beating Mayweather. Especially when discerning the styles between each match.

 

I'm not bias whatsoever. I don't even know what you're getting at with this post.

The Spinks fight was a good performance and an especially great result, but it's held in such a high regard. Yes, it's a great name and for this reason it's a great performance. But Spinks was absolutely terrified (Something you don't even quite admit) and with all his awkwardness had nothing to trouble Tyson. Tyson bulldozed through and gave Spinks power zero respect. When I say this I mean he jumped on him rapidly. There wasn't finesse or a calculated aggression it was just pure aggression. He showed other fighters more respect throughout his career, or at least was more calculated in his approach. There's nothing from an artist or purists part that makes this a special or unique Tyson performance. I don't know what people don't get about my point. Maybe because it goes outside the box. Lastly, while Holmes was off a year and 8 months, Spinks had been inactive for a year while Tyson was fighting and collecting belts.

As for the bold, if you can find me articles about Tyson slipping evidently or that he was a serious danger against Douglas than I'd be open-minded to these statements. I want things that point to in the ring, as out of the ring stuff was a worry in the buildup against Spinks. I don't quite understand the bold. Tyson was favored heavily against Holyfield and has many excuses made for him. Everyone talks about how Tyson would still win if he were in his prime. Revisionism happens, I guess?

I really don't want to continue on this discussion as it always goes no where. My2Sense addresses the specific aspects already. Any more vague general back and forth discussions are just becoming repetitive.

 

No I dont believe Spinks was terrified in the fight. He fought back and got knocked out cold.
Bruce Seldon was terrified before, during, and after, thats why he took a complete dive to get out of the fight.
Spinks eyes rolled back in his head like a slot machine. Someone who is terrified doesnt put themselves in that type of position to get hit like he did.

 

Are you serious? They showed Tyson getting clocked in sparring by Greg Page in the prefight vinette and spoke of Tysons lack of focus leading up to the fight not mention this:

His personal life started to fall apart. He had an unhappy marriage to actress Robin Givens punctuated by bizarre events such as crashing his Rolls Royce into a tree, being humiliated on talk shows by his wife and mother in law, fighting with Mitch Green and allegedly hitting people in car parks. Jim Jacobs died in March 1988 and Bill Cayton and Kevin Rooney were unable to keep Mike on track. By the time of Tyson's defence with Frank Bruno in Feb 1989 Rooney had been sacked and Givens had filed for divorce. Bruno managed to tag a ragged Tyson before being stopped. Tyson's polish had gone he looked like a brawler not the multi-skilled boxer he had been a year earlier. A one round stoppage of Carl Williams five months later masked Mike's decline. Outside the ring he was running wild, chasing women and getting into scrapes. He had begun to live like his boxing idols John L Sullivan and Jack Dempsey, trying to be a tough guy in and out of the ring.