Tyson Luke Fury vs. Francis Zavier Ngannou

And that fight was 5 years ago. In 5 years you can reach your full potential at anything. I can be a noobie in history and reach a world class scholar level in 5 years.

Ngannou fought pro Kickboxing, man !!
When thai fighters jump from Muay Thai to Boxing and became champions like many, in just a couple of years, nobody talks nothing, this has been happening for ages. It makes no sense this crazy talk about "Fury destroying boxing credibility" or whatever as if Fury fought Tiger Woods there.

I think Fury got overrated through the years, by many, mostly because he is marketable, he is british, and the Wilder fights were great, but he was never that good, with all the things considered in Ngannou, you can understand that fight.

I did pick Fury, I was very surprised by Ngannou winning several rounds, but now I realize that this was more about Boxing people not knowing MMA, and what MMA fighters do on a daily basis (train boxing), than anything. It was a super smart move by whoever manages Ngannou.
And tell you what, they probably knew it because Ngannou for sure sparred boxing champions before and did just fine.

 

"I think Fury got overrated through the years, by many, mostly because he is marketable, he is british"

Fury has been massively underrated: Chisora 1, Price, Haye, Wlad, Wlad 2, Joshua, Wilder 1 and Wilder 2 were favoured to beat him. He still doesn't get the credit he deserves and won't get it until he's been retired for several years. He may well be even more underrated now he's just had a bad performance, similar to the Wallin or Cunningham fights, Pajkic, McDermott etc.

As I said, Puritty and Rahman didn't just give Wlad and Lewis good fights after starting boxing in their 20's and having only 8-10 years experience, they KO'd Wlad and Lewis. With Ngannou's unprecedented attributes of course he's dangerous.

 

I was though, because Fury (in my mind) had everything to beat Ngannou. I was surprised on the other hand about how big Ngannou is comapred with Fury, so Fury was fighting a bigger Samuel Peter there, even though less polished than Peter.

Fury lost many rounds because he was surprised, Fury is mentally tough but he is not a focused guy in the ring, he has lapses in concentration, it took him too much to figured out that Ngannou was not a easy opponent. I watched his interview with Rio Ferndinand before the fight and he said "if I lose it would be like your team losing 7-0 to Liverpool B" which at the time I though "wow this is a exageration, not like that at all, the guy can throw hands well"
I feel like he bought his own hype, and he is down to earth now and this is one of the reason that IMO he is beating and stopping Usyk.

 

Oh I disagree. I don´t rate too much any of Fury´s opponent except Wlad. If Fury was a quiet man, and I don´t know, italian, just a example, he would be shitted on just like Carnera was in his day.
His boxing ability "oh he outboxed Wilder" and this and that, got overrated, for me he was never that great boxer-puncher that could move and was slick... what ? No. He is the guy that punched himself in the face with a uppercut and gets caught by a wide punch every fight.

Hey, just me, he was underrated when he was fighting Cunningham, then he got overrated because of the Wilder fights.... now he is possibly being underrated because people that dislike MMA are just pissed with him and can´t wrap their head around what happened.

 

Fury is prone to underestimate opponents and feel invulnerable, that's a major difference between him and say Wlad. Wlad would always have a proper training camp and take an opponent seriously, even if it were someone like Leapai or a sparring partner he'd already beaten up like Pianeta. In terms of Fury's concentration in the ring, it has to be good or he'd have got KO'd by now.

The Sam Peter comparison has some merit. Peter was regarded as a very crude fighter and much smaller than Ngannou, yet he took Wlad life and death. And he didn't have the wrestling/clinch fighting of Ngannou either, which would have spelled huge problems for Wlad given how much he grappled to beat Peter.

 

He gets caught by wide haymakers every fight since he started his career. It´s a abnormal number of KDs.

 

"Carnera"

Yawn.

If Carnera had been born 80-odd years later and schooled Wlad Klitschko, breaking a Compubox defensive record in the process, he'd have been rated a lot more highly than he was.

"No. He is the guy that punched himself in the face with a uppercut."

Wlad punched himself with an uppercut too, as did Povetkin. This was cited as a reason by many forum geniuses why Fury wasn't any good and why Price would KO him.

 

"every fight since he started his career"

Dumb exaggeration. How many times did Chisora 2 or Hammer for instance catch him with a wide haymaker? Or the guy he fought on his debut?

A lot of it is due to underestimation. He thought Pajkic, Cunningham and Ngannou were easy work. Even Wilder 3 he didn't respect nearly enough. When Fury's been 100% focused and prepared, he's hardly got hit.

"a abnormal number of KDs."

1. Wlad and Wilder are two of the biggest punchers ever, both 6'5+ and athletic, Olympic medallists, Ngannou may well be in that broad bracket too

2. If you get up then you're more likely to get knocked down again than a fighter who stays on the floor

 

Wait, we are comparing Fury to who ?
If you are comparing him with the rest of the modern bunch, okay, he is great. Now, in my head, I´m thinking about the greats of all time, which in itself is a praise to Fury already.

He beat Wlad fair and square. Even though he did a "anti-boxing" type of fight that I very much dislike. But, he is the man that beat the man first.

 

"I´m thinking about the greats of all time"

Their careers can easily be shredded and deconstructed if one pleases. In terms of ability, I think Fury is the best there's been thus far.

The Ngannou fight doesn't have negative implications in that regard. People assume that a 6'3, 217 lbs Foreman would beat a 6'4, 272 lbs, roided to the gills Ngannou, when I think it's more likely that Foreman (who was heavily dependent on being the bigger, stronger man in his day) would get KO'd. At the very least we have to admit that the old fighters never fought anyone remotely like many of these modern fighters.

 

Chisora and Hammer ? C´mon, these are journeymen, I not knocking Fury down for getting drop by Wilder, he is a freak for surviving that, but he is considered a classic boxer, with good footwork and defensive moves, inside that line of thought, he gets dropped too much by punches that are too wide and he should have seen coming (and by albanian journeymen or guys that are not close to his level).
My explanation is a lack of concentration... yours is ??

 

If it were general lack of concentration then Wlad or Wilder would have KO'd him over 4 fights away from home. I'd say it's more of a tendency toward underestimation. He was also more susceptible to the right hand in the Cunningham days and before. The fact that they signed to fight Haye next means that they weren't worried about Fury's concentration or defence in a fight he'd take seriously.

 

Okay, that is fair. You are a big Fury fan though, keep that in mind. You almost took a guy (me) who praised your guy Fury and turned him into an antagonist. Not a good job by you if you want people rating Fury higher right now.

Fury gets overrated by some still, in the end, is my conclusion with this debate.

 

"Fury gets overrated by some still"

Some, sure. If someone said that Fury will KO Usyk inside 3 rounds (and there must be a few), then I'd say they were almost certainly overrating Fury (or at least underrating Usyk).

 

Fury struggled with MMA fighter debut Ngannou. That's the only true fact. Ngannou hasn't fought anyone else in the top. Says nothing about Foreman