tyson my belifs why we underate him

Sorta like Tyson quitting vs McBride.

 

To take Ali out you must be a great combination-puncher with one KO-punch. Like Frazier never was, like Foreman never was (he hit as hard as hell, but one punch KO - is not his ability, glassies Rodriguezes and Mooreres didnt matter), like Liston never was, like mediocre Shavers never was. Ali never had good block against left hook - best and quickest MT punch. Ali was KD only by Left-hooks and MT could landed such punch alone and in combinations. I think Tyson has good chances to KO Ali, but definetly better chances to take this bout has Muhammad. ALi to tough mentally for MT he can frustrate and took away Tysons courage and fighting plans.

 

Tyson was purely offensive? Is this why his evasiveness was his universally considered his best attribute, even by Tyson himself?

The head movement, jab, and stamina was not there against Buster Douglas that's why he lost.

 

Ali in his prime (mid to late 60s as most people say) was too light to handle the prime tyson onslaught. If any Ali beats tyson is Ali from about 72- 75 because he was craftier and heavier. But Cassius Clay aka Muhammed ALi is to light.

 

The opposite of what you just said is more likely.

 

Ali could not only be beaten, he was actually be beaten, even in his prime. Of course Tyson would have a realistic chance against him...

 

Angelo Dundee stopped the fight.

Tyson never had an excuse that his trainer stopped the fight for any of his losses. He was beaten, floored or in no position to continue.

Douglas. He got up barely, and was on ***** street.

Holyfield. Was taking monster punches and not defending himself.

Lewis. Well, he was getting a pasting for 95% of the fight, and was on his ass from a right hand. No position to contiune.

Williams. Floored and never wanted to get up for more.

McBride. Never seen it. But from what I heard the stoppage was simlar to the Willians one.

 

Tyson is ridiculously underrated H2H around these parts. His resume may be less than stellar, but 1986-1988 Tyson would be a monster for anyone to fight.

Let's keep in mind that Joe Frazier decisioned Ali (and knocked him down, too) in the FOTC, 1971. Many will argue that this wasn't even a prime Joe Frazier.

Frazier was essentially a one-armed fighter. An excellent fighter, ATG no doubt, but Tyson had double the arsenal of punches. Someone is going to try to call me out for calling Frazier one-armed, but they won't be able to deny that Tyson had FAR superior right-hand power, and the actual means to deliver that power.

Tyson, almost unarguably, punches harder than Frazier too.

He punched in extreme combinations, sometimes as many as seven or eight punches at a time, from a two-fisted puncher, no less.

Peak Tyson's defence is UNMEASURABLY better than Frazier's. Tyson rarely even got tagged clean - Frazier's style was to bore right in, get his head on your chest, and start throwing. Frazier DID HAVE a defence, but that defence was grossly inferior to Tyson's.

Footspeed? Advantage Tyson.

Accuracy? Advantage Tyson.

I can cede an advantage to Frazier in stamina, but Tyson did NOT have bad stamina. That you only had to "survive for eight or ten rounds against Tyson" to beat him is sheer FALLACY. He never lost a fight that went to decision, and his stamina was as good as most ATGs.

Chin? I'll call it equal, but in all honesty Tyson beats him out. Tyson took horrendous beatings from Douglas and Lewis before he ever went down. Keep in mind that the Tyson who fought Lewis was insanely shot, too.

Heart? Everyone is gonna say "FRAZIER! TYSON WAS A *****/WIMP", but I'll disagree. That Tyson never got off the canvas to win is irrelevant - Tyson only went down after taking SEVERE beatings. Douglas landed 500+ punches before he finally got Mike on the canvas.

If 1971 Joe Frazier can beat Ali, then Tyson sure as hell can.

To cap my argument, I'll say that Ali is almost physically uncapable of knocking out prime Mike Tyson:

Ali was not a puncher any way you slice it. Tyson only went down after horrendous, one-sided beatings. If Ali wants to land enough punches on Tyson to knock him out, he will essentially give away his footspeed/quickness advantage, putting him in extreme danger of being knocked out.

 

I have a couple of confessions to make: when Tyson first came up and became champ, he scared me as the most ferocious man I, the casual fan, had ever seen. The way he destroyed every champion, legend and big, strong man put in front of him! But I was comforted by the opinions of “experts” who assured of the superiority of legendary names such as Marciano, Dempsey and Louis.
In those dark, pre-Youtube, days when boxing film was not that readily available, you had to take a guy’s word for it when it came to the great fights of the past. To my great delight, I finally got my hands on excellent tape of most of these great bouts circa 2000. I would finally see these guys and meetings that long lived huge in my imagination for myself! It was great.

Something bothered me, though. It seemed to me that, on the face of it, Mike Tyson was actually better, and by a considerable margin, than anything I saw from these old legends. Yes, they were great fighters, but seemed just a bit slower, a tad less powerful and impressive. It bothered me that Louis showed less resources than Mike did against, say Holmes or Bruno, in trying to stop an old Sharkey on those ropes in Round 2. Sharkey actually punched Louis back in the face a couple of times because Louis was basically just standing there, wide open, measuring with a left. It bothered me that short, fat and slow Tony Galento would actually worry and floor Louis, with one punch. I couldn’t believe George Foreman’s utter inability to hit Ali on the ropes in Zaire and how an old man such as Walcott could rough up and floor Rocky Marciano in the first seconds of a championship match.

I was comforted again when I discovered boxing websites and read “expert” opinions saying Tyson was never comparable to the best. But those videos would keep coming back to haunt me. What I saw did not stack up with what I read. After dozens of viewings, stuff suddenly started appearing out of nowhere before my very eyes. I began to see in Mike Tyson one of the most fundamentally complete fighters I had ever witnessed. Yes, he was fast and powerful, but he had the proper balanced stance and approach for his style: he would come in with a jab and had several ways of clobbering bigger men than himself, always with amazingly fast, perfectly timed and supported punches, now a swift left hook to the jaw, now a surprise overhand right, now a body blow followed up by a huge uppercut down the middle. “This is classic boxing!”, said something inside me. It really was. I began shaking my head at every puny Ali or Holmes left hook or Frazier right to the head. Fundamental by fundamental, champion Mike Tyson simply showed me better stuff, punches and results, than that of all the legends.

And so, as a guy who appreciates fundamental quality in the ring, I know young Tyson had to put in the effort in the gym to become the champion he became. And the results are there. He showed us new dimensions, because he paid the price for greatness: ten years dedicated to making the most of his wonderful physical gifts, in the solitude of training, to reach the dream Cus planted in his heart.

 

Great post. His fundamental mastery, before he abandoned it, was truly undeniable.

 

Not even the Ali that Frazier beat?