Tyson of 89-91 V Heavyweights of History

Sorry, but tysons was a totally different fighter, film doesn't lie, his head movement at times dissappears, as does his setting up guys, he certainly becoems more one dimensional in looking for the one big shot. His defense is not near as good, Watch tyson, holmes, Tyson, Berbick, then even tyson Bruno, you can see a change in his style, and it is not for the better.

Tyson is the Bo Jackson of boxing, in their primes they could stand with the greats, unfortunately, we will never know becasue one succomed to injury, the other to himself. BUT, you cannot deny tyson at his best had a chance against anyone.

D'Amato was tyson mentor and guardian, Rooney a big factor in tyson using his craft properly, once Don king and crew got involved you can easily see the difference in the fighter. THe post prison tyson still had the power and speed, but he never used much of his technique that made him so effective.

 

Great post dude, spot on.

 

I find this to be completely inaccurate.

Tillis, Tubbs, Thomas, Berbick, Ruddock, Biggs (while he could), Botha, Ribalta stood up to him. They all faltered.

Standing up to him is no different than standing up to George Foreman or Sonny Liston or Joe Frazier- unless you present a style or you are able to execute a gameplan that accompanies that then it makes no difference whether you stood up to him or not. He was going to beat regardless. Remember Tyson never got discouraged if you stood up to him. He only got discouraged when he was unable to land.

Another thing is that Tyson never getting off the floor to win means nothing. He had a stellar chin and as a result it took alot more to get him on the floor in the first place.

 

˙˙Everybody has a plan until they get hit˙˙ - Mike said that around the Biggs fight I think. And its true.

It's easy for us to judge and be smart - we are not in the ring with the man. Lot's of fighters went into the ring with him with a plan and no fear (those others already mentioned) but thats all fine until they actually feel his power. Many have said afterwards ˙˙I didnt expect him to be so strong˙˙. And thats just it, you cannot prepare for what prime Mike brought to the table. Few body shots are enough for the leg's to go. :bbb

 

To be honest, this has always been a gripe of mine. While I like it when fighters get up off the floor to win, thus displaying heart, courage and sheer guts, guys who don't go down so easily or frequently are seemingly punished for it.
Let's face it, the knockdown against Holyfield aside, where did Tyson get the opportunity to win after a knockdown? (I'm talking about a Tyson that was still relatively effective as a fighter, not the old wreck who later fought the likes of McBride.)

He had been battered from pillar to post by both Douglas and Lewis, and when he went down he was finished. No man could have gotten up from those beatings and still have won.

So aside from the Holyfield fight, where could he have won when put on the floor?

 

He went down in the Ribalta fight, but more from slipping. He never went down in his fighting prime.

 

Haha thanks. Yeah but I'm a big Tyson fan too. I really know his fights like the back of my palm. I feel people exaggerated. Sure there's slight differences but really it's not like Tyson was ultimately a different fighter. I don't believe that a Buster Douglas couldn't have beat him on 1988. He may not have knocked Tyson out, but I wouldn't doubt a decision win. I'm big on Marciano but I don't think he beats a prime Tyson, Foreman, or Ali. I'm somewhat quesitonable on Holmes/Liston (For Holmes it's his ability to engage when heart. For Liston it's Marciano seemingly thinking there was a weakness in the man).

I just gets tiring when you hear someone say that "No man could ever beat Tyson in his prime." I think his performance against Ruddock was solid.

 

I do. I've always felt him losing Rooney was a big thing. Rooney would've kept him straight and would have forced him to train and be more serious. But ultimately it does come down to Mike. I do believe his training slightly slipped for Douglas. I heard he didn't want to run much and wanted to have fun. Still, I don't believe that he was out of shape. He was champ, and went 10 rounds with Douglas. I do consider that to be his worst performances, but fighters are allowed to have bad performances. Sometimes the other guy isn't letting you do what you want to.

But Tyson seemed a little hungry in 91. He got training hard, got Holmes trainer and seemed good in his fights with Ruddock. Who knows what would have happened if not the prison sentence. People might not be excusing a 86-88 prime window. To me, Tyson was top notch against his best opponent. Tyson was working on his defense big time before the fight. People don't mention these things... the only thing Tyson did less of was jab at that point. And against Ruddock that's quite understandable.

 

Plenty of capable fighters "stood up to him." Like you said, Bruno did and was knocked out.

 

I agree Giachetti was a good step up from Bright and Snowell but Giachetti was not a Damato deciple. He was a good no nonsense trainer, but his style was different, and it showed.

 

:good

 

Is this another Tyson nutt hugging thread? A prime Tyson got knocked out by Buster Douglas, The prime Tyson avoided old fat slow Foreman like the plague. Any fighter who has a ok chin and is willing to fight back would beat Tyson.

 

The Tyson that fought Bruno and Rudduck looked like a shot fighter. And he definetly was at his very worst for Douglas up until that point and anybody who can't see that needs to go see a doctor to get there eyes checked.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3m7tXD-IuA

There's a big difference in his technique when you watch how straight up he was fighting in the rudduck fight compared to the bonecrusher fight when he was trained under Rooney.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fka_m4nyOLQ

In this fight he gets more in a crutch and uses more head movement and Bonecrusher was a banger just like Rudduck but Tyson's techincal skills and head movement was much better. It's nite and day.

 

He never went down in the Ribalta fight. He didn't even slip, whered you get this from?