**tyson,,one of the best heavyweights??**

Tyson: ATG or not ATG?... the neverending debate continues :yep

I am not fan of Tyson, and to be honest, sometimes it is upsetting to see all the excuses his fans make for his career failures and shortcomings... he is the original "shoulda, coulda, woulda" guy

But the guy is still an ATG, none the less.

Where to put him in the ATG ranking? Probably he is borderline top 10 :deal

 

Tyson at his best was in at least the top 5. The man was a freak of nature, being so heavily muscled yet so fast with his hands and feet. He possessed frightning power and contrary to what many thought, was a thinking fighter, not just someone who just threw caution to the wind. There was definitely a method to his madness and this, along with his elusiveness made him a most dangerous foe.

 

We can't fault him for coming up in an era that didn't offer top competition. In stylistic match-ups I have trouble coming up with too many HW's that I would give big odds to against Mike. When you're a Tyson fan as I am, it's very easy to crossover into apologist territory, given Mike's disappointing performances against Douglas, Lewis, and Holyfield. But one of the best heavies, of all time? How many guys would you bet big money on against Mike, say in a series of three? Louis, Ali, and....?

 

I have always maintained the 80's and specifically the contenders of that era were all top notch. Not a lot of heartless guys with poor skills. With exception to rampant drug problems, the fighters themselves were technically very good and fought with a lot of heart. The same cannot be said for the young group that emerged around 94-95.

 

louis, ali, foreman, liston, lewis, probably also holmes and frazier. like i said earlier i have tyson somewhere around 10. but mike never won against a good or great opponent whom he didn't ko'd in the first 8 rounds. if somebody took al what mike had and didn't fall or backed down. then it seemed as if mike backed down, and boxed at a slower pace and so

 

I think Mike had a problem with faith in himself, maybe a guilty conscience. I don't see it as backing down as such, it was less a choice than an unconscious reaction. We could call it heart, but somehow I think it's more complicated than that. Maybe he was smart enough to not like himself, for all the **** he did when he was a kid, for all the **** that was done to him before he was mature enough to understand. I'd like to hear what Mike would have to say about this recurring issue with his ability to come back after someone showed him they were going to stand up, as Holyfield did. There's a new documentary on him by Jimmy Tomack that looks good, where Mike does a lot of the talking. Has anybody seen it?

 

I saw it and was disappointed. Its basically the same footage as Fallen Champ the Untold Story of Mike Tyson with Tyson speaking over it. Nothing really new other than the fact that he had gonnereah during the Berbick fight.
I prefer the other movie because its from the perspective of people around Tyson, whereas Tyson has alway seemed to talk in circles.
I also think Tyson had a lot of problems with self confidence, and I never understood why he never hired Rooney back who always seemed to have Tyson's confidence dialed in correctly.

 

Since when did knocking out opponents before 8 rounds penalize you

Also, Liston didn't have any knockouts past 8 rounds more impressive than anything Tyson had. Tyson breaking down Ribalta and Biggs is proof that he didn't have a mental breakdown if he couldn't kill the early like people choose to believe.

 

Ah, that's a drag. I was looking forward to it. I think Mike, with all his limitations verbally is a very bright guy. I'd really like to get his take on this stuff, as I think, and I know others disagree, he is also a very honest guy. Let's not confuse honesty with exemplary behavior in and out of the ring.

Why Tyson never got Kevin Rooney back and alienated quite a few others while he clung to guys that didn't have his best interests in mind I think goes back to his lack of faith in himself. In Mike's case, I think it's deep, which is really a redeeming quality; since it implies an intact conscience. Being taken in by Cus and Jimmy Jacobs at such a young age sheltered Mike, gave him a false sense of security in the fight world. When he no longer had that umbrella he was lost, and the fame and fortune vultures sensing an easy prey swooped in on him. Again, why he was vulnerable to them is a result of his naivete and his shaky sense of self. Love him or hate him he's one of the most interesting figures in the history of the game.

 

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It's a ridiculous argument.

But in any event, he compares quite favourably to the following:

Ko's past the 8th round:

Sonny Liston - 1
Lennox Lewis - 0
Wladimir Klitschko - 2
George Foreman - 2

****, even Rocky Marciano only managed 4. Evander got 3. Frazier got 3.

It seems that it's the accumulation punchers that fare the best:

Ali - 8
Jack Johnson - 8
Larry Holmes - 5