Tyson or Frazier? Who ranks higher on your heavyweight ATG list?

That's ridiculous, there is no reason to believe that.

 

Which Ali?
The Quickster from 60s, or Mr. Durable from 74?

A fellow moving and jabbing like that is trouble for about anyone.

 

To his credit, Tyson beat more Ali impersonators than anyone else.

 

Man, you just must learn that syles make fights. Styles are cycle around. Watch, the big punchers will lose to the boxers, the boxers will lose to the pressure fighters, and the pressure fighters will lose to the punchers. Muhammad Ali beat TONS of big punchers, Tyson would be beaten as well. But Joe Frazier, Ken Norton, and Leon Spinks (all pressure fighters), are the kind of guys that would wear down good boxers like Ali and win. But see, guys like George Foreman and Mike Tyson and Earnie Shavers steamroll guys like Frazier and Norton, the slow starters. It all end's up even in the end, man. There's no superior style, no superior fighters.

 

Dokes had the as much skill as Norton. Thomas was tough and had a terrific jab, but no. Coetzee definitely not.

 

Impersonators aren't necesarrily a bad thing. Let's see, Tyson defeated Tillis (on paper anyway), Pinklon Thomas, Tony Tucker, Larry Holmes, Michael Spinks, Carl Williams-that is quite a few, although they weren't all exactly like Ali. Good point No Neck, keep up the good work.

 

Cus knew what it took to beat Ali. He conditioned a fighter like Mike Tyson, who was well equipped to beat the style Ali presented. You can't say Ali beat the power punchers and conclude that he beats Tyson too, because Tyson was a totally different animal to the Foreman and Shavers types. Nobody had that amount of speed and power in the heavyweight division until Tyson came along.

It would be a battle for the ages and that's why it always comes up as the best heavyweight fantasy match of all time. Head 2 Head, at their respective peaks, I lean towards Mike Tyson.

 

Tyson was like Floyd Patterson on nitroglycerin.

 

First of all, Tyson is not a slugger like Foreman. He resembles Frazier a lot more, although Tyson was also a counter puncher.
Second of all, all the big punchers Ali beat were stiff, slow and with little or no head movement whatsoever. Tyson was one of the best ever at dodging punches by bobbing and weaving.
Tyson would have a lot more trouble with someone like Foreman than with Ali. Tyson is a very bad stylistic matchup for Tyson.

 

I don't believe ANY fighter can be categorized exactly. Yes, Tyson was like Frazier in that he was long-winded, he could bob and weave, was fast, and was a great body puncher. He was a decent boxer, too. I do think he could give Ali a hard time, whereas Foreman might be more of a shut-out if he slugs it out.

 

Frazier turned pro in '65 and took over the division not losing until '73. He was fight good fighters as early as his 12th pro fight. (Bonevena)
Tyson achieved alot too but his record was padded with alot of Willie Falldowns and Kenny Getups. Frazier was just as dominant if not more. Tyson was a more spectacular performer.

 

Tyson was not just a "decent boxer", he was one of the most skilled HW boxers in history.

 

do you mean fighter, or boxer? When I say "boxer", I mean guys like Muhammad Ali, Holmes, and the Sugar Rays. They use their jabs, good chins and stamina, movement, and speed to beat other guys. Tyson is not that kind of fighter. Sorry I didn't clarify.

 

The term boxer includes all the boxing types, not just out-boxers like Ali and Holmes.
Tyson also used speed to beat his opponents.
And although Ali was very successful, he's not a very skilled boxer. He relied on his physical attributes, and those cannot be classified as skills.

 

I'll remember to use the term outboxer/ outfighter from now on. If you think Ali was just tough, then you've obviously seen a lot of his 70s fights. But do me a favor, watch his 60s fights and see the footwork, the handspeed, and the stamina. Ali rarely had to use his chin back then, he was just TOO GOOD of a boxer. Most of Ali's tough fights were in the 70s, but you should watch Joe Frazier II and George Foreman. If you've already seen them, watch them, and watch them again. Those were two standouts where Ali went back to the 60s, relying more on his boxing skills than toughness.