Tyson or Frazier? Who ranks higher on your heavyweight ATG list?

What are the K bros?

 

He did, but the division wasn't especially good. Tyson's ten straight wins in title fights during the 80s was probably second only to Ali's 70's reign (for 10 straight title wins). And Tyson came back with Stewart and Ruddock x2 right after that, which was very solid.

 

Well, you started the disagreement when you tried to correct me.

It's actually quite difficult to tell what the disagreement is about now because you keep changing your argument because you won't admit that what you said was incorrect.

No, that's not what you said.

You said head movement wouldn't be a factor.

For the sake of some consistency, try to keep to the same argument in two consecutive posts.

 

I'm not changing my argument.

Tyson's head movement wouldn't be much of a factor if Frazier pressed inside and the 2 of them were in close range. Do you disagree?

Because if you do then you obviously don't know much about boxing.

 

This is one of the most fair and balanced assessments of the 2 fighters careers and abilities.

 

OH MY GOD....

That's NOT what I'm saying and it's not what I've said at ANY point.

The fact that you keep clutching at straws and changing your argument (because you're not big enough to admit that your initial point was wrong) means that your replies have nothing to do with what I said.

It's time for you to join MURK20 on my ignore list.

 

Good riddance. You are one of those people who simply likes arguing and trying to make people look bad. Instead of clarifying your position and being direct you keep beating around the bush and accusing people. I don't have time for these game. You could have simply answered the question but you were at least wise enough to realize how stupid you'd sound if you did.

I'm not "clutching" at anything lmao. You lack reading comprehension. What im saying isnt complicated at all and I've tried clarifying myself 4x now. Anyone who thinks Tyson's dramatic flashy head movement would be effective on a short stocky guy like Frazier at close range is a moron who has never watched boxing.

 

Isn't this hard to prove? Tyson was almost always the shorter man, and did display good head movement ( in the mid to late 1980's ) which made the other guy miss, such as say Pinklon Thomas if memory serves.

My take is it won't matter. Frazier doesn't last long at close range. Tyson hit significantly harder with both hands, and has more power and the better chin. It's a bad match up for Frazier. Tyson would hurt Frazier as easily as Foreman, and being a slow starter as Frazier for whatever reason was it makes it even tougher.

 

It isn't hard to prove at all. It's basic physics. Watch Leo Santa Cruz vs Abner Mares, 2 shorter guys slugging it out at close range on the inside. You don't see a lot of dramatic fancy head movement.

Pinklon Thomas is 6'3 with much longer arms than Frazier. Bad example.

Or You could try it yourself. Stand shoulder to shoulder on the inside with a guy the same height as you and you'll see how difficult it is to bob and weave or dip and slip punches. That's why this range is called "fighting in a phone booth" because there's hardly any room. You can't get as much leverage or snap on your punches.

Frazier is way better than Tyson on the inside, is better at smothering and working the body, and has better stamina. Tyson will have to land bombs at mid range and halt Frazier's forward momentum before he gets inside. Otherwise every round will just be him missing wide and standing there clueless wondering why he is unable to mount a counter attack. Tyson's big arching uppercuts and leaping hooks require a lot of space to land and are harder to use on a guy under 6 feet.

Despite saying all that I still favor Tyson to win the fight. I just don't get why anyone with an ounce of boxing knowledge would think Tyson is going to gracefully slip and dodge punches on the inside where Frazier is going to be coming forward constantly and throwing sharp short combinations. It's not like Frazier wont be trying to slip things either he had good head movement too.

 

Once again it depends. Frazier and Tyson were about the same height, so why couldn't Tyson who had good head movement at his best duck Frazier's punches up close if he wanted to? Jimmy Young was a taller fighter for his day and he ducked plenty of punches from tall and short guys.

It was never proven Tyson couldn't do it. Also Frazier way better than Tyson in the inside? Whoa. Tyson floored guys with body shots and had a lights out uppercut. Plus a short right hand. Frazier could not do this, he only had a hook, And Tyson had a harder hook in my opinion. The uppercut is harder to land on a much taller fighter or a much shorter fighter. Once again these two are close in height. Tyson could be the shorter man.

 

It's nonsense. Tyson fought smaller fighters and moved his head.

 

I have Tyson, Liston and Frazier at 7 on my ATG list.

I have never decided definitively on the correct order.


1 Ali
2 Louis
3 Lewis
4 Foreman
5 Marciano
6 Holmes
7 Liston / Tyson / Frazier


10 Wlad

 

Fair list my friend.

 

He might be able to duck some of them but it would be harder to do because Frazier is in his face stepping forward constantly.

The uppercut needs room to land and Frazier wouldn't give him any. I don't think you realize just how close Frazier will be to Tyson.

Did these fighters have the size and build of Frazier while constantly moving toward Tyson?

 

Good question. Give me a minute and I'll consult the oracle.