Tyson/Seldon

That fight was definitely a dive on Seldons part. The last knockdown where he wobbled and Steele stopped it was a complete acting job on Seldons part. I believe he just felt like he couldnt win, and wanted out of the fight. Ironically Seldon was stopped in 9 rounds by Fres Oquendo last night.

 

No, that's reasonable. Let's timewarp back to 1996 and you can take a flush hook from Mike Tyson. And don't wobble when you get up. Then I'll totally admit that all of us who think this was legit were full of ****.


****, just get up, period.

 

ote=IntentionalButt;4566093]No, that's reasonable. Let's timewarp back to 1996 and you can take a flush hook from Mike Tyson. And don't wobble (or go down). Then I'll totally admit that all of us who think this was legit were full of ****.[/quote]
Well I can share a personal story with you. Ive told this story before and I swear its the truth. I was at the Tyson BrunoII fight and I was sitting a few rows behind Seldon. After the fight, and having a few drinks in me and I walked down a couple rows and screamed to Seldon, Hey Bruce, your next, your going to get it next!! The man went from smiling to a look of cold fear on his face. I actually felt bad for him after I said it, and his whole demeanor changed and he really had a look of fear. I knew at that point he had no chance. The way Seldon acted before and after the fight putting his arm around Tyson it was a total joke. Seldon for some reason got caught up in the whole mystique of Tyson being some monster. I know it sounds like a BS story, but I swear it happened. I told anyone who would listen Seldon wouldnt make it out of the first round and probably not the first minute of the fight. I actually snapped a picture of Seldon, so Im going to try and find it and post it.

 

Did Berbick take a dive?

He would have hit the deck a 4th time had the ref not caught him.

 

I have no problem buying that. See to me, that just corroborates that Seldon was petrified and unable to intelligently defend himself, so overwhelmed was he by the magnitude of the moment. After both knockdowns there's a glaze in his eyes - not a conspirator's glaze - a victim's glaze - the look lobsters give you as they're halfway in the pot.

 

Pause and examine 3.32 of the video.

When he hits the deck his left foot is under duress, and it slips on the canvas causing him to flop onto his belly.

 

I'm not going to say that the fight was a fix because with Seldon's chin it was a foregone conclusion, but Seldon definitely dived the instant Tyson threw anything resembling a punch.

Slow motion replay:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNwX9_fmKTs

5:30 The jab misses and the follow-up punch doesn't land. Seldon does a nice belly flop.

Now the left hook did land but the wobble Seldon did was an act to get out of the fight.

 

A) The jab doesn't miss, IMO. It pretty clearly lands on Seldon's nose, and at the moment of impact (5:33) his knees start to buckle. If the fix was in, wouldn't he wait for the power punch to come through to start to "sell" it? Every fool armchair professional wreslter knows that.
B) Tyson's full body weight more or less followed the jab directly, causing the top of Seldon's head to bounce off first his armpit (5:34) and then culminating in what was in effect the KD "blow" - butting up against Iron Mike's big non-cuddly pecs. Not to mentiont those are some well-muscled arms that came full-boar around Bruce's dome. An odd sight and not a common one, but the basic physics of it aren't far beyond comprehension. Guys with physiques not half as imposing as Tyson's are able to knock their peers down just by stepping into their path and sticking out their chests in both football and basketball.
C) The hook at 5:55, especially from that angle - is an absolute thing of beauty. Executed the way you'd wish they'd teach in elementary school. Clearly connects. And on the jaw. No questions here. Judah chickendanced over less. Spaghetti legs here are certainly forgivable. As I said, Seldon getting up from that was a feat.

 

"A right hand on the top of his head," Tyson said. "More of an elbow that touched a nerve or something," said Seldon. Replay after replay failed to show the collision. Seldon's face-first fall was so mysterious that referee Richard Steele first started to rule it a slip. "I was attempting to wave it off," said Steele. "But he seemed hurt, so I picked up the count. I've seen a lot worse, but then I can't tell how hard Mike Tyson punches."

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1008744/1/index.htm

I don't buy it.

 

As I said - knees buckled the legs, and then the weight/brunt of Tyson's arm/torso/armpit knocked Seldon to the ground. If you want to get technical, IMO it shouldn't have been ruled a knockdown in hindsight. It wasn't a legal punch that put him down. It was however, physical force. You see guys get pushed or muscled to the ground all the time in this sport. This set of circumstances happened to go as follows: Sharp jab weakened Bruce's knees and Tyson came barging in, Seldon's melon pinballed around his burly frame (you can't tell me there's no contact with the armpit - out of which his skull clearly bounces independent from the movement of the rest of his body - then the chest, and the arms pushing forward/down on top of it all). So in a perfect world Tyson gets credit for only one knockdown in the fight. Same result. Totally academic. Seldon knocked off balance by the brute strength of Tyson (not by a punch...although it was a jab that anchored him and set him up by causing the quiver in his patellae) and then KTFO by a hook not long thereafter.

 

Does my explanation not suffice?

I think this is getting well out of hand.

Again:

Pause and examine 3.32 of the video.

When he hits the deck his left foot is under duress, and it slips on the canvas causing him to flop onto his belly.

 

The bottom line is, whatever it is, while it may have looked odd in a boxing context in that it's not what you see every day - it did in fact look quite natural. Tumblers with years of prat-falling training and experience can't turn in performances that good. What makes you think some dunderhead boxer is going to be able to intimate the exact motions of being bowled over; and then of being KTFO by a perfect leaping hook (and with that one really I don't see any room for debate - very routine reaction).

 

Seldon wasnt afraid of Tyson. I am sure he was paid to take a dive just like many Mike Tyson opponents.

 

Classic Forum's credibility is rapidly gaining on that of the GF. :-(

Neck and neck:

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