Tyson (Spinks fight) Vs. Lewis (Golota fight)

Ah ok, things are making a bit more sense now. Well kudos to you having a crack, translator and all, to chase your love of boxing. Sorry i didn't pick it up fully and earlier mate. At least it's out there now and i will take it into account moving forwards.

Ok, so i said grind him down which is a long way from "crushes". Crushes is more a one sided beating, thrashing even. I am in no way predicting that.

I think Lewis could end it at a similar stage to their actual fight. I can see why, on the surface, that it is hard to see this fight ending at a similar time to their actual encounter but a peak Tyson is going to put far more heat on Lewis and Lewis would not be able to sit back near as much as he did, i think. Lewis having to be more consistently aggressive is why i think it's possible the fight might end at a simialr stage despite Tyson being a totally different fighter to the one he faced.

Mercer has a better chin than Tyson. Tyson has an excellent chin but Mercer's is truly exceptional. His prime years show this. Obviously Tyson is a far better fighter. Remember too that Tyson avoided punches way better than Mercer and he dispatched foes faster and easier as well. Some guys barely got off.

Unless i am going bananas i am positive at one point, between rounds, Tyson was asking his corner to stop the fight but they wouldn't. I'll try and track it down when i have time.

Biggs and Spinks shouldn't be mentioned in the same year as Ali, let alone the same sentence.

I mildly favor Lewis over Tyson. I definitely favor Foreman over him. I think Liston compete hard with him. Holyfield may well beat any version of Tyson, a great many including Futch believe Evander had his number. I'd comfortably favor Ali. I think Tyson would wipe out Frazier and i think he'd get Holmes too. I like him over the Klit's and everyone since them as well. So there's not many i favor to beat Tyson.

 

I believe it happened between the 7th and 8th round.

 

This sounds about right,Fergy. It would be a Battle Royal.

 

I have no problem with who you consider better than Tyson. You may even have an opinion that Danny Williams would have won faster with Tyson 1988 than with Tyson 2004. I would be surprised and ask for arguments, I think they would be the same or similar.

I don't think Tyson asked for the fight to be stopped. Be objective - there is no boxer more hated than Tyson. If that were the case, someone like Teddy Atlas would mention it in every public statement he makes, i.e. at least dozens of times since 2002. He would probably make such a situation the most important in Tyson's entire career, next to biting Holyfield. But whether it's true or not - Tyson fought Lewis to the end. I know how he reacted when he was beaten round after round - I have no idea how Lewis would react. You don't either. Lewis never humiliated himself by entering the ring in pathetic shape, nor did he ever deal with someone of Tyson's caliber in 1988.

Mercer had a few things better than Tyson. He was obviously a bit bigger, he was probably stronger, he was better at infighting but that's about it.. he was slower, he was less explosive, he moved worse, he didn't have Tyson's technique, he didn't hit from so many planes, he was more static. As for the jaw - how do you measure that? Tyson was never knocked down early on. Despite his great defense he kept attacking and making mistakes - with Tucker, Ruddock, Bruno.. Lewis beat him for 8 rounds to hit the exhausted Mike with his strongest punch and he still had to push him so that Tyson fell. He didn't fall after clean blows from Bruno, Tucker, Ruddock. How many times did Holyfield hit him cleanly, including a right on right, and Tyson was still standing. How many times did Danny Williams hit him? Look at the combination of blows he received from Douglas. Tyson was knocked out but always extremely tired, when his opponent had a huge advantage and still delivered dangerous blows. Who could have worn out Tyson from 1988 like that, who in the 80s had an advantage over him for more than two rounds?
I can't judge who had a stronger jaw, but nothing points to Mercer. The same applies to the psyche.
Why can't I mention Ali in the same place as Spinks or Biggs in the context in which I'm mentioning them? Getting into Tyson's head was never a good idea. Did Holy try to do it? He didn't annoy Mike, I think he knew it didn't make sense. Tyson didn't lose his head with the annoying Biggs, Holmes, but he lost it with the not annoying Savarese, Norris, Golota... at the moment when Botha, who had an advantage over him, started mocking him and trying to annoy him. Tyson regained his composure and focus!!
Evander Holyfield quote "I think the less confident he is, the more he has to be feared"
Do you think that Lennox Lewis would have gotten into the head of Tyson from 1988 more than Tyson from 2002? the one who didn't get a single warning in dozens of fights and was undefeated?

 

There's no need for speculation or wild theories, the evidence is there on film between round 7 and round 8. His corner told him he ain't quitting among other things. It's simple fact.

Of course he did. It's well documented he dogged it in training for Rahman and arrived on site too late to acclimatize. He was more dedicated to a movie. He got humiliated.

The majority of top posters over the years have always lauded Mercer's chin over Mike's. Tyson has an excellent chin but most prefer Mercer. Mercer was 40 odd against Klit and had 6 fights in about 6 years, and not against decent opposition.

Ali was the king getting into someones head, but even more so, he could back it up!!!!!!! The cardboard cutout Biggs and an old Holmes were hardly peak Ali. Ali purposely wound up such monsters as Liston and Foreman and beat them. Tyson would just be another murderous punching monster for him. Ali would hit all the key notes too, unlike the others.

I don't think it matters if Lewis got in his head. The more important point is that the confident Lewis wouldn't let Tyson get into his own head.

As far as Holyfields comment, well that's no big thing. Over confident fighters can get pole axed. Tyson and Lewis both know this.

 

Be serious - Golota had no problem giving up to Grant, giving up to Tyson despite the clear protests of the corner, lDuran said no mas, Vitali didn't get up for the 11th round, Krasniqi did the same despite the orthotests of his people, Liston of course too and many, many others. Don't tell me what the corner told Tyson, only con
Tyson did to stop the fight. There's no need for crazy theories here - you have a guy who, being completely broken, GOES TO ATTACK and you claim he tried to fight. If your theory is right, then Tyson found in himself a strength of spirit greater than the strength of the body!! that's crazy!!

Where do you have Lewis beaten round after round like Tyson in Memphis who still attacks? is Rahman Lewis 1 really an analogy? or maybe you didn't understand the context again because of my terrible translator and in three days you'll write that we're writing about something else?

Find me an expert who claims that Mercer has a stronger chin than Tyson. Tyson was hit many times with very strong punches, by very strong punchers and he fell ONLY when exhausted. Only and exclusively. Ruddock hit him on point, Bruno did it, even Lewis hit the exhausted Tyson with his strongest punch and had to push him. I hope I won't have to prove that Tyson was also faster than Mercer

 

Hell of a fight, but Im still going with Tyson. I think he'd rip Lennox to the body with the right hook, right uppercut combination he was known for and possibly stop him later in the fight.

 

What have those other cases got to do with our convo? Any perceived criticism at all of Tyson and you go cross eyed trying to defend him.

The corner was the convo. The claim was Tyson wanted to quit! The claim is 100% correct. You went to great lengths trying to make that not true but it simply is. Make of it what you want.

Rahman was an embarrassing loss for Lewis and caused by a lack of dedication, preparation and an overabundance of cockiness and he ended up on the canvas embarrassed.

You said pruior Lewis never beat anyone of 1988 Tyson's calibre, well Tyson never defeated anyone near the level of Lewis, either. Not even close.

When you've been here long enough or enjoyed the archives enough i'm sure you will find some gold.

Tyson was hurt multiple times early in fights so lets not pretend his chin was impervious until he was on deaths door with tiredness. Find me all the times prime Merciless was stunned early on in fights.

Tyson being faster than Mercer never came up, it's a strawman. I commented Tyson was a far better fighter than Mercer etc etc etc.

Lewis couldn't drop him clean? Some have said Tyson could have got up, do you agree with them?

As for the three days to reply, well life is busy right now and long drawn out debates hardly inspire me anymore hence me trying to shorten the exchanges.

 

If a fighter wants to leave, he simply does so. We've seen it many times. He doesn't need the corner's permission!!! He simply doesn't leave for the next round - it's very simple. Tyson not only left but went on the attack. I'm not even going to mention the fact that I still don't know at what point Tyson asked for a surrender because it's irrelevant to me in the context of what he did - he fought to the end!!

A Polish commentator known for his funny comparisons after Tyson's fall stated that if Mike gets up, it will be the greatest miracle since the resurrection of Lazarus.
You can hate Tyson, but you have to be completely detached from reality to consider his fight with Lewis as a surrender, an escape. It was Tyson's freestyle, it was Tyson without timing, without reflexes, static, without dynamics, but it's the first time I've heard that he was also heartless. I don't want to offend you, but what you're writing is complete nonsense. Complete. I think that the heart he showed in Mephis would be enough for him to beat anyone if he still had the dynamics, speed, cardio, timing, and overall good boxing form.

 

They could make a modern day Balboa film out of it. It was incredible.

If you think i hate Tyson I've wasted hundreds of words. I've also posted nothing remotely akin to his fight being a "surrender or escape". I've also not called him heartless. Yet again you've run rampant with your own conclusions that are way off base and wildly inaccurate.

So what you call nonsense is your own complete lack of understanding and interpretation to be quite frank. We'll put it down to language barriers and end it here. You can go on thinking Tyson at his best was unbeatable. Perhaps he was, but i highly doubt it.

 

and what the heck, Tyson is far from being undefeated, Lewis even further. That's all. The discussion with you was fun but I will agree with you on one thing - a complete waste of time. Have a wonderful day

 

Lewis is not further from being undefeated, he had less losses than Tyson = closer.

Adios.

 

Yes John, there will come a day when you realize Brian Niesen has less losses than Muhammad Ali but that's not great evidence.

 

That has nothing to do with me correcting you tho, Jakub. I never stated Lewis having less losses than Tyson is "evidence" of anything. You've made that up in your own mind, somehow.

I don't think there would be a poster in here that would not realize counting losses is not the be all and end all, or even meaningful at all in many cases and that's saying something, as we have the rare oddball in here.

 

of course John. It doesn't matter when you write that Tyson tried to give up with Lewis even though everyone saw that he fought to the end, it doesn't matter when you wonder if he could have gotten up and kept fighting, it doesn't matter when you write that Lewis had fewer defeats than Tyson or when for some unknown reason you put in the Tyson-Lewis thread how he would have behaved if he had fought Ali or Liston. Could you focus on things that matter? not on suggestions, speculations, theories but your specific opinion and specific arguments? because when you take back your own words every other post claiming that they are irrelevant it is really hard to understand your arguments even if you know English perfectly