Tyson statistically proven to punch harder than Foreman

I'm not arguing per Foreman/Tyson, i'm just saying Young was badly hurt, Foreman absolutely knew it, went all out to finish him and failed. This is crystal clear on film. Young didn't play possum, he reeled across the ring sideways from the blow almost tripping over his own feet. He then tried to survive as best he possibly could. Foreman up to and including the Ali loss would have blasted him out early when he was fresh imo, no small feat.

I have no problems with your points on Tyson/Foreman and the angle you are working. I wanted to point out that Foreman had indeed let one guy slip thru. Both are great finishers any which way we look at it and breaking things down to pedantic levels is what many of us are here for of course. You and Griffo are doing a great job.

 

I have Mike at #10 ATG:

1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Holmes
4. Holyfield
5. Lewis
6. Foreman
7. Marciano
8. Frazier
9. Wlad
10. Tyson
11. Dempsey
12. Johnson
13. Liston
14. Vitali
15. Bowe
16. Charles
17. Tunney
18. Walcott
19. Fitzsimmons
20. Norton

Some of the fighters below him, like Bowe, would have surpassed him had he not gotten blown out so early in his career. And, well...if he'd cared a whole lot more.

 

Before anyone asks, I put Frazier above Mike because of both Joe's championship heart and chin (not to mention a still-undeniably-great-and-under-30 Ali). Joe never got knocked out cold or beaten by somebody like Williams and whoever the other tomato can was who beat him toward the end of his career.

Before people think I'm picking on Mike (I'm a fan too, you know), I did put him at #10, above some pretty darn great fighters (including Liston, who seemed unbeatable in the late 50s, early 60s).

 

A thought shot Holyfield knocked out Tyson just fine (which he couldn't do to old George) so forget about what Mike did with old Larry because that renders it irrelevant.

And 5'11 Frazier had great head movement and was hardly stationary and still got obliterated by George and I'd be happy to bet that the bigger, stronger, tougher, braver guy would do exactly the same with 5'10, one dimensional, come forward Tyson in his prime.

And so what if Jimmy Young and Jerry Quarry beat Lyle? They were both top fighters. Dave Bey, Mike White and Jesse Ferguson beat Buster Douglas and Douglas beat Tyson's brains in. Maybe Tinkerbell wasn't quite as good as advertised seeing as Douglas did precisely squat before and after beating Tyson.

Of course Foreman accomplished more. Olympic gold medallist, two time lineal heavyweight champion, oldest ever heavyweight champion, highest KO % for a lineal heavyweight champion, earned more, won more, lost less, stopped far less, embarrassed himself far far less and disgraced the sport far far far less.

Gotta laugh how you only mentioned the Moorer fight until I called you on it now you bring up the first career which until you searched boxrec I'm pretty sure you were unfamiliar with. Well at least I can say I made some one go out and improve their (limited) knowledge. Kudos to me.

 

Sorry for this novel. I tried to address everything I could and decided to answer in one take. The debate rages on...

Tyson is the greater fighter. Youngest HW champ in history. He made 9 successful defenses of the title and cleaned out the division. Not only did he beat the belt holders but he beat the fighters those belt holders beat and left no stone unturned. Foreman made 2 successful defenses of the title. Sure Tyson lost to huge underdog Douglas, but Foreman lost to a 32 year old Ali who had already lost to Frazier and Norton. Ali was far past his prime, was he not?

After losing to Douglas, Tyson rebounded and beat the #2 ranked Ruddock twice. After losing to Ali, Foreman has the back and forth, up and down, whoever can last longest if the bell doesn’t save them win against Lyle (where does Lyle fit in the grand scheme of things?). Now is Lyle any better than the guys Tyson bombed out like Berbick, Thomas, Bruno, Ruddock, Truth Williams and Tubbs? Back to Big G with the rematch win over Frazier (whom G had incredible size and power advantages) and the loss to Young. Then he retires for 10 years.

After a 4 year layoff and less than 4 total rounds of action, Tyson regains 2 belts, one from Bruno who beat McCall who beat an old Holmes and KO’d Lennox in 2. The other against Seldon, who beat Tucker for the vacant belt that was vacated by Foreman for refusal to face Tucker!! In other words, a duck. Tyson then loses to Holyfield twice. Tyson gets flack for losing to a 34 year old Holyfield but Foreman doesn’t for losing to a 32 year old Ali? Time to reassess that comparison.

I’d like to mention that Ali, Tyson and Foreman are the only 3 heavyweights to regain the title 10 years after first winning it. Foreman however, did it after 20 years. Which is incredible, but is it enough to rank him higher over Tyson on the ATG list? Being the oldest man to win the HW title is incredible but Foreman handpicked his opposition because of his big size and new style for longevity. The heavyweight scene was starting to turn for the worse in 1994.

After the suspension for biting Holyfield, Mike went on to beat the likes of Botha, Savarese, Golota, Nielsen, and Etienne. All 5 of those victories are better than anything Foreman did post comeback besides landing a one in a million shot against china chin Michael Moorer. Even a blind squirrel can find a nut once in a while. Thanks Larry!!

How is Moorer on the same level of Tyson’s opposition from the 80’s? Foreman wouldn’t even face a 45 year old Holmes!! Was the Moorer victory any better than Tyson’s win over Bruno in ’96? What did Moorer do up to that point but beat a jaded Holyfield by split decision? Nothing, that’s what.

Foreman choreographed his comeback. It took George 3 TIMES, that’s right, 3 shots at the title to finally land a one shot KO over chinny Moorer. You take out the Moorer upset and what are we left with? Wins over Cooney’s corpse, a war with Alex Stewart, was beaten and outboxed by Tommy Morrison, the gift over Axel Schulz and refusal of a rematch that got him stripped of his only title left, another close call over Savarese and then the loss to Briggs which should’ve been a win. Oops, I forgot the decision win over Grimsley whose very next bout land him in the Guinness Book of World Records for being on the losing end of fastest KO ever: 8 seconds to Jimmy Young. You take out the Moorer win and everything falls back on his 1st career that doesn’t compare to Tyson. AT ALL.

Overall, Foreman had a few great wins in a resume that ultimately lacked depth. As champion he never maintained the lengthy reign or dominance that Tyson had. Tyson had the longer reign as champion. Foreman in his first career couldn’t for more than 3 defenses and in his second career was stripped for not defending against his mandatories, chose soft touches and splintered the belts.

For 3 straight years in Ring magazine, Tyson was the Pound 4 Pound #1 rated fighter, 1987, 1988 and 1989. At no point in his career did Foreman ever come close to making the Top 10. Overall careers and Foreman might have the worst win/loss record against ranked opponents. I’ve said before that Tyson went 22-4 against Top 10 world ranked fighters, and Foreman went 7-5. That’s a tremendous advantage in Tyson’s favor.

We rank both fighters on their overall achievements, not who beat the better fighter. Everyone talks about resume and the emphasis is on overall depth. Plus, who was more dominant against their opposition? Foreman struggled far more than Tyson did. Foreman wasn’t a mystery to solve. He was right there in front of you, and if you didn’t have enough power you could box around him. But if you did have power, as Lyle showed, you could hang with him if you could land.

 

Tyson didn't even beat anyone as good as Moorer post prison let alone after 40 years of age!!!!

 

Moore only had 2 ko losses in 57 fights. Both of them were to 2 of the biggest punchers in history. That doesn't make you glass jawed. Kind of defeats the purpose of labeling someone a "power puncher" if we claim anyone they knocked out could be knocked out by anyone.