Tyson v Lewis, twelve years earlier - Different outcome?

Fair enough

 

Well, Lewis was 35 when he fought Rahman, and about 27 or 28 when he lost to McCall - so if Lewis lost to both "in his prime", then Lewis's prime according to you is what, 8 years?

Tysons was what, 2, 3 at the most?

To say "Tyson only lost once in his prime so forget everything else" is a joke. If you want to that pedantic, Lewis never lost in his prime, because he reached his prime with Steward, and was noticeably on the slide by the time the Rahman fight came around.

Bruno was a questionable win? A questionable, six round KO???

A more accurate description would be Lewis struggled for a while with a decent opponent, and then nearly took his head off.


In 1990 Tyson wins, as the World Champ should against a green pro. Anytime from Lewis v Ruddock on, Tyson finds it harder and harder to win IMO. The main chance he's got pre-McCall time, is that Lewis was actually more of a right hand happy banger, with less emphasis on defence, so probably has more chance of forcing Lewis to go toe-to-toe increasing his chances.

One thing Tyson wouldn't have had over Lewis which he had over a huge number of his opponents is the fear factor. I don't think Lewis would ever be scared against anyone, he's too arrogant. Watch Spinks pre fight against Tyson. Tyson could have hit him with a feather duster and he would have been happy to go down for the count.

 

Tyson beats Lewis in his prime :yep

 

I can agree with a lot of what you said, and you are right that Lewis was not in his fighting prime when he faced Mcall. Tyson was in his physical prime against Douglas, but not his fighting prime. I dont put too much merit in the fear factor either. Tyson put fear into opponents because what he did to them once the bell rang. A good amount of the fighters he faced werent scared, Ruddock, Green, Tillis, Berbick, Thomas, Holmes, Tubbs, and Ribalta all came to fight. I think the fear factor was more to Tysons advantage, and he tried to use it more, when he got out of prison, because his skills were ****, and he knew it.
I also agree that Lewis at this time was an off balance righthand swinging sloppier fighter, which would allowed more openings for the declining Tyson. Remember Lewis really didnt enter his fighting prime until 97, so his fighting prime was somewhat short as well, and I do believe Rahman beat him in it.

 

Hero worshipper? How old are you? Because I give credit guys like ALI, D'Amato give to tyson means I hero worship him? he is not even close to my favourite HW fighter, ignorant much? I am not blind and know a thing or two about boxing. Tyson didn't need a plan B, in his prime he was able to sustain the attack for 12 rounds (Ruddick, Bruno), so he didn't need a plan B, no one could stop plan A. Douglas was an upset, they happen, see Rahman, McCall. Also, tyson, after D'amato died started slipping every fight and stopped using his craft and started to become a one punch ghead hunter (Even in the bruno fight the sings started showing), D'Amato was also Tysons guardian, and his life started going doen hill after that, that is were the downfall really started, it just took a bit before it became public knowledge. he stopped setting up gives picking his punches, stopped trying to counter, stopped using his great head movement, yet he was still a force for a few years becoming more of a one dimensional fighter.

No way any version of Lewis keeps a prime tyson at bay with just his jab, tyson made a living countering and ducking punches and getting insdie with great speed and using accurate, power combos. Lewis was the type of fighter a prime Tyson was made for. A guy Like holyfield IMO has a much better chance agaisnt prime Mike then Lewis. That would have been a hell of a fight.

 

If it was 1989 and Mike was still on a roll and unbeaten , LL would have been dragged steadily into the Hype and mentally dragged into its hysteria and probably stopped in about 5 by Tyson in a fight he would have been rushed into in the spur of the moment, but if it was after the Douglas fight and Lewis was more established and had Steward onboard , Lewis would have been able to summonned up a classic Tyson beatdown by stopping Mike late in a rough fight.. Mikes weapon was fear and without it half of the decent heavyweights knew his acchillles heal...


mirageboxing.blogspot.com

 

Absolute bull, this myth that fear was a big part is bull, none of the big guys mike faught after he became champ feared him (Except Spinks), they were leary of his power sure, ANYONE would, but fear had nothing to do with it. They feared him because of his immense power and speed, notying else. Ruddock, Holmes, Bruno, etc... None of those guys feared tyson, that had zero to play in anything excpet tysons weaker opponents. Ruddock thought tyson was afraid of him, and was a very big puncher who faught back at tyson, didn't bother tyson one bit. Tyson kept coming. Tyson only became fragile after Rooney, D'amato left and his life started to go off the rails, especially after prison. People act like Tyson was always mentally fragile, when Rooney and D'amato were around they were stability, and it showed in his focus.

 

Watch the following fights and tell me if his opponents feared him. Ribalta, Tillis, Green, Berbick, Tucker, Tubbs, Bruno I, Ruddock. I think all these guys came to fight. Some got knocked out, some put up decent fights.

 

watch Seldon.... watch Bruno 1st fight, they didn't know what to expect and it was that kind of unknown territory which is what hurt them, they saw all of those other decent heavyweights fall in front of Mike and knew that it was a high probablility they could be next .. The last few weeks run up to a fight even the best fighter have doubts , i helped manage heavyweights and see how too much negetive thinking in the last few days to a fight can hurt thier optimum performance.. Fear as i put it wasn't like they were physically afraid of the man himself , but what may happen to them in the large scale of things , when the tv cameras roll, and the arena is full and Mike makes that ringwalk its a damn lonely place and it makes many fighters doubt themselves.. this is what i am referring to.. Many fighters even admitted it in statements years later in articles and books, that if they knew then what Douglas acheived it would have cracked open that eerie myth that surrounded Mike.. His Power was so tenacious for a kid that raw it ofetn did freak many opponents out way before that 1st bell.



mirageboxing.blogspot.com

 

Well we knew Seldon was scared shitless. I was sitting behind Seldon at the Bruno Tyson fight, and after the fight I screamed to Seldon, your next, your next, and I swear to you, I saw fear in the mans eyes. He wanted no part of Tyson at all. I kind of felt bad for Seldon after I heckled him, because he was clearly upset. I told anyone who would listen, he wouldnt make it out of the first round.

 

http://www.doghouseboxing.com/Newman/Newman070505.htm

George Forman makes some good points how tysons undoing had a lot to do with how he was so poorly managed and the people he surrounded himself with.

 

George Foreman also rates Lewis as the best HW of all time!!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/specials/lewis_v_tyson_fight/2036717.stm

In relation to the thread if the fight had happened in 1999 Lewis was too green whilst Tyson was considered an experienced pro. However i do still feel that on this site especially Tyson is very overrated due to 3 years of his career where he was blowing away a lot of nobodies. Tyson is an ATG and a great fighter but the way some of you talk it's like he was an unstoppable machine which just isn't the case. He was very 1 dimensional and never had a plan b, if he couldn't blow you away he could be outboxed.

In 84', just 2 years before Tyson would become HW champ of the world and started his supposed PRIME.... Lewis (a small amateur version) beat Tyson up in a sparring session. So please Tyson ball suckers... stop thinking that Prime Tyson kills any version of Lewis cos that's just fantasy.

Also for the guy that said Tyson would never have said he could never have beaten Lewis... his exact words were "There's no way I could ever beat him," Tyson said. "He's just too big and too strong."

 

LOL, tyson says a lot of stuff, tyson said this after he got beat, means nothing, especially with his fragile mind set. Tyson in his prime never says that, all that speaks to is tysons mindset, nothing else.

Tyson was hardly one dimensional in his prime, to say so is beyong ignorant and shows a lack of boxing knowldege. He became one dimensional after terrible management, but in his prime, tyson had a lot of tools. Greatd dfense, Great movement, great combos, set guys up. He didn't need plan B, like Joe frazier, he just keptcoming and was able to in his prime.

You think a little sparring session means anything? LOL grasp at straws much? And no lewis never beat him up either, tyson actually stunned lewis the first round in that sparring session, means nothing, please. That has no bearing on anything, and 84 was hardly tysons prime, he was green. His prime was 86-89.

George Forman's opinion, good for him, no one in their right mind thinks Lewis is betetr then ALI, or Foreman, Frazier, Marciano, Louis, etc himself for tht matter. Like to suck british diick much, lol.

 

What happened in amateur sparring fights is irrelevant. Tyson lost to Henry Tillman twice in the amateurs, and then knocked him out in a single round in a pro fight.
I just fail to see how Lewis could go 12 rounds with Mike Tyson from 84-89 without getting hit once on the chin - and with LL's glass jaw that is enough. That is his biggest problem, if he had a strong jaw like some other of Mike's opponent's (Ribalta, Tucker, Ruddock etc) I would give him a good chance of winning by point score.

Maybe - and a big maybe it is that Lewis could last 12 rounds with the post Rooney Tyson - pre prison Tyson, beacuse by then Mike stopped setting up his punches as effectivley, didnt use the jab enough and his head movement and combination's got very rusty. The tape's speak for themselfs.

And I dont see why you need to call Tyson fan's ball suckers. Seriously I belive the Tyson of 84-88 is one of the best fighters ever and I would only give a few fighters in history winning chances. Foreman, Liston and Holyfield come to mind, cant rule out Ali of course.

And about your last quote, well he also said right after the fight in a post fight interview he want's a rematch beacuse he belives he can beat him. I wouldnt pay too much attention to every quote any fighter makes. Tyson fought and beat guys as big and strong as Lewis.

 

Ali said He didn't think he could witstand tyson in his prime (He said too fast, great defense and great power), D'amoto, rooney (They know a thing or 2, D'amoto was around in Ali's era) thought Tyson could retire undefeated if he stayed dedicated to his craft, Point? No one knows for sure, good for foreman if he thinks lewis is the best ever, but even a LEWIS fan must know that's a stretch.