Tyson vs Ali

Heres an old thread i did on this a few years back

http://www.boxingforum24.com/showthread.php?t=267174

from the Thomas Hauser book Muhammad Ali, His Life And Times.
Chapter: Burial, page 458

It talks about Alis opinion of Tyson as well as those of Teddy Atlas, Floyd Patterson, Bill Cayton, and Kevin Rooney, Jose Torres and Larry Holmes about how Ali Vs Tyson would pan out.

Interesting to see you guys thoughts.

Alis own heavyweight rankings place himself first, Jack Johnson second and Joe Louis in third place. Even before Mike Tysons shocking loss to James Buster Douglas, Ali said in private about Tyson, "He's predictable, the way he moves his head. He has fast hands, but hes slow on his feet and my hands were faster than his. The way to beat Tyson is with a fast jab, a hard right hand, and if he hits you, you have to be able to take a punch."


Larry Holmes, who fought Tyson when "Iron Mike" was at his peak, says, "Ali would have slapped Tyson all over the ring. Tyson hits hard but he's a bully, and Ali had a way of dealing with them. Can you imagine the things Ali would have said about Tyson before that fight? Hed have made Tyson so mad, Tyson would have been running into the ropes when they started the fight."

Holmes view of Alis ring supremacy is shared by Tysons early boxing family. Jose Torres and Floyd Patterson were guided to world titles by Tysons mento, Cus Damato. Bill Cayton served with Jim Jacobs as Tysons first co-managers. Kevin Rooney and Teddy Atlas worked with D'amato as Tysons trainers. When asked to match Ali in his prime against the best Tyson has been to date, all five said Ali would prevail.


Jose Torres
"You cant explain Ali in a conventional way because he consistently did the wrong thing in the ring. He didnt bend down, he didnt go to the body, he punched going backwards. He held his hands too low, he pulled straight back from punches. He didnt even throw combinations, he threw punches in flurries. And then he would win for two reasons - speed and magic.
Against Liston, Ali wanted to quit because of his eyes, but he got pushed out by Angelo Dundee and he wins. Its magic. Against Foreman he had no business to win, but he destroyed Foremans mind like a wizard. Its magic. If Ali at his best fought the best Mike Tyson, Mike would have more power, but there would be too much magic. Because of Cus, my heart would be with Tyson. But Ali would box Mike for 12 rounds, 15 rounds as many rounds as you want easily."

Floyd Patterson
"I dont want to say anything derogatory about anybody. All I know is, anybody who moves like Clay moved is going to give his opponent a lot of problems. Ive seen Tyson with guys who moved a bit, and he had difficulty, so imagine putting him in there with Clay. Mike can be hit with the left jab if you time it properly. I dont think he would have gotten by Clays left. And he wouldnt have knocked Clay out, because Clay took a very good punch and almost never got hit. Clay beats Tyson.

Bill Cayton
"I honestly believe that Mike Tyson at his best was the second greatest heavyweight of all time, but he wasnt Muhammad Ali. Mike is quick, but Ali was quicker. Mike had power but Ali had the greatest chin ever. And Mike unfortunately is prone to frustration, which would be his achilles heel against Ali, because Ali was the best fighter in history at playng mind games with his opponent. If Ali in his prime fought Mike at his best, i see Ali winning a decision;say eight rounds to four, or nine rounds to three."

Kevin Rooney
"Ali had that special belief in himself that allowed him to impose his will on other fighters. This is a guy who took on three of the toughest heavyweights in history, Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier and George Foreman and beat them 5 out of 6 and when he fought Frazier and Foreman he wasnt even in his prime.
The young Ali would have frustrated Mike. I see Ali coming out, jabbing, moving talking alot. If Mike had me in his corner and his head was screwed on right, it would be close. Id advise Mike to keep his hands high, be elusive, slip, move in; whenever possible work the body. Lots of feints, because Ali was a terrific counterpuncher. Believe it or not, id work the jab even if it ws to Alis chest. It would have been an interesting fight, with both guys missing alot. But even with Mike at his best, id give the edge to Ali"

Teddy Atlas
"Ali at his best beats Tyson at his best. At his core, Ali is a much stronger, more stable person. Probably the way hed have fought Mike was to rely on what he did best: jab, score from the outside, stay off the ropes, show a lot of side to side movement, neutralize the pressure, make Mike pay when he missed, tie him up when he got inside. After a while, Mike would get anxious and he would be throwing one punch at a time. Then i think hed break down mentally, which is the area where Ali was the strongest. And when that happened, Ali would start putting punches together to punch Mike downhill even more. Finally when the time was right without it being too dangerous, Ali would give Mike a reason to fall. I think Ali would knock him out around the ninth or tenth round. But before that, Mike might get so discouraged and beaten mentally that hed quit the way Liston quit".

Howard Bingham on Muhammad Ali - (Not related to Tyson Vs Ali, but still a nice read)
"Travelling with Ali is something else, and dont think its just when were overseas. last year, we visited the New York Stock Exchange. There was Ali, Joe Frazier, Larry Holmes and Ken Norton. It had to do with a video they were promoting. First the other three guys walked onto a balcony looking over the stock exchange floor. There was applause and a little cheering, then Ali walked out and the place went wild. They were shouting Ali! Ali! like the other guys werent even there. And Ali likes the attention he gets.
That same trip, we were in the car talking, and he (Ali) asked, 'If i walked down one side of the street, and Larry Holmes, Joe Frazier, George Foreman and Mike Tyson walked down the other side, which side would get more attention?' i told him he would.
Then he asked 'If i walked down one side of the street and Jesse Jackson walked down the other, whod get more attention?' And i told him the same thing.
So finally he asked, 'If i walked down one street and Elvis Presley walked down the other, whod get more attention?' That one was harder, i told him 'Overseas, you'd have more people, but in the United States, it would be pretty close, maybe even a little for Elvis.' That didnt bother him, All he said was, 'I guess thats right. Elvis has been dead for a lot of years, so people would want to see if it was really him.'

The book also mentions how a young Cassius Clay went to visit his favourite fighter to get his autograph, only to get told "Im too busy Kid", that fighter being none other than Sugar Ray Robinson.

 

Character. There is a marked difference in character....and footwork. Tyson, circa 1986-1987 and even at times later in his career, tended to revert to a predictable sequence of movement when in with a foe he failed to obliterate early. He'd raise his gloves to his face, plant his feet and look to load-up. Would he do this after missing the train on stopping Ali over the initial rounds? And if he did, would Ali time that sequence, thus throwing off Tyson...time and again?

Also consider, Ali was a master at tying up and muffling a foe when the moment dictated it...and Tyson was known for cooperating in close as we saw it with lesser fighters.

In as far as chin goes, I believe Tyson had a solid chin. I believe his psyche was fragile under certain conditions and that his spirit could be chipped away at over rounds, especially if his foe could out-box him or even suggest to be able to dominate him. Holyfield dominated Tyson, save round 5, in their first encounter. Douglas fought him and attacked him. Spirit was an intangible that could break Tyson down...and Ali had it in spades.

These are just a few points, there are more. Having said that, it would be an interesting fight, and Tyson would be a big threat over the first 4 rounds. Ali would have to be at his very best, cautious and mobile.