Tyson vs Douglas - the ref should have counted Douglas out

Oh man, the perfect example is right here in the thread you've been commenting in multiple times. If Meyron was any closer he'd be kissing Douglas' bald head.

If you want to go all denial the reason Reiss is lower initially for Fury is because Fury is FLAT where as Douglas raises his head. As it is Meyron has one knee on the floor with Douglas. Furthermore when Tyson is knocked down Meyron is on two knee's for a split second and stays low in his face.

Just so you know the job of a ref is to get up close and personal to the hurt or flat fighter and to be loud and clear so boxers in a daze have a chance of understanding what is going on.

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You know the point of this thread is that the Douglas count was controversial, right? And no, the ref in that fight didn’t get down on both knees and blast a count into the face of a man whose eyes were closed.

 

You are just unsalvageable aren't you. Not a total waste of time as people can see what i provided and what you shut your eyes too.

 

Look, it's very easy to fix this.

The referee in Marciano-Walcott 2 handled it perfectly.

You can watch the ref standing over Walcott (so Joe can see and hear the count) and the ref is also staring at the timekeeper to be is sure that his count matches the timekeeper's count. Walcott goes down at 4:04 ... and the referee and timekeeper both reach the count of TEN at 4:14 and the fight is waved off ... 10 seconds later.

This should be the norm.

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After the fight, fans were so incensed with Walcott, feeling he took a dive, that they were still booing when the walkout bout began, which was Oakland Billy Smith vs Billy Noble.

But the announcers recap exactly how well the referee did as he was counting Walcott out in the previous match.

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AND in this walk-out fight, Noble goes down at 3:57 of the video and the 10 count is completed at 4:07, 10 SECONDS LATER.

It's not brain surgery. Just freaking count to 10. TWO different referees in those fights - Jack Sekora and Bernard Whiteman - managed to follow the timekeeper and count to 10 in 10 seconds.


As far as Tyson-Douglas goes, I've never had a problem with the speed of Octavio's count in Douglas-Tyson. He admitted he screwed up by starting the count himself and not picking up the count. "I messed up. I don't know why," I believe was his exact quote at the postfight press conference. He's human. Octavio should've began when the timekeeper started his count. He knew it. He just panicked and didn't.



My problem is how the 10-count has gotten to the point that there are often and "routinely" close to 20 second breaks between knockdowns and resuming the fight ... and how fans have just gotten used to the refs taking their sweet time not only counting BUT RESTARTING the fight.

For example, in the fourth round of Fury-Wilder 3, Wilder puts Fury down at 24:39 in the video clip below. The referee resumes the action at 24:59 ... 20 goddamn seconds later.

The second knockdown in that round occurred at the 25:16 mark of the video below. (There were OFFICIALLY 16 seconds left in the round.) The referee resumes action at 25:37 ... 21 SECONDS later.

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It's maddening.

How did we get to this? It happens all the time now, not just in that fight, to fighters everywhere. And fans just excuse it.

George Foreman knocked down Joe Frazier for the second time with 16 seconds left in round one. Arthur Mercante managed to count to eight, resume the fight, Foreman managed to knock down Joe again before the first round ended.

Wilder dropped Fury with 16 seconds to go, but the clock had reached double zeroes and the round was over for FIVE seconds before the referee told the fighters to "box" - but the round was over.

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There shouldn't be any fight where 41 seconds are spent in a round on issuing two standing eights. That's too long.

Just LET THE PERSON outside the ring do the count and FOLLOW THAT COUNT to the END.

They used to. There's two examples above where two referees managed to follow the timekeeper's 10 count ALL THE WAY to the end with NO problem.

Just count to 10.

At the rate we're at currently, if you knock someone down with 25 seconds remaining in the round, and if they get up, you may not get a chance to even THROW another punch.

 

Yet we were reminded in

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that the Tyson-Douglas ref was correct in not following the timekeeper because the cheating ******* timekeeper tried to start Douglas' count at 1 instead of 0.

 

I don't speak for that guy. I actually have him blocked and had to log out to see it.

My point is what it is. That Asian official at ringside (during Tyson-Douglas) wearing the white gloves who you can see holding up his fingers (in the bottom left of the screen during the Douglas knockdown) started the official count. Octavio should've picked it up but didn't. And the referee admitted he screwed up. He owned up to it immediately after the fight.

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But to avoid all this nonsense, we can just make it a rule to let the official knockdown timekeeper continue counting to the end, so the ref can count along with him at any point.

I don't know when they arbitrarily "stopped" doing that. They certainly used to do it (follow the timekeeper to the end). I provided video examples. And it worked just fine.

 

Did you two have a fight??

Anyways, I remember Hamed-Kelley having the timekeeper on a speaker - maybe that was a one off due to the crowd noise?? But again, check how Kelley had barely hit the canvas before some ******* starts yelling 1,2..maybe it was automated?;

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When you go down, you're down. That's when the official count starts. Like I said, all these refs today wandering around, counting as fast or as slow as they want, asking 20 questions of them after they get up ... having them walk over there and walk back this way ...

It drives me insane because I remember when it wasn't like that.

This isn't BETTER now.

Just let the timekeeper on the microphone count the whole way. The ref can pick it up when he can but should count along.

 

After he fired Rooney, Tyson went downhill cause he stopped focusing on boxing.
So I doubt we'd see a much better version of Tyson vs Roidyfield.
Tyson barely trained and beat opponents, he was blinded by his own success.
If he were to hire Rooney back and train hard, he'd destroy Roidyfield. But I doubt that was gonna happen, he probably would have lost on points.

 

it is a way to give Mike the win that night, but Douglas beat him up in a great performance. I always wondered by Douglas was so relaxed and almost quit when he went down. He looked at his gloves as to focus and see if he wanted to get up... It is that action which made me realize he could never be a great champion or fighter. He was just too inconsistent.

 

I can see both sides of the argument but in reality Tyson still lost that fight

 

In interviews he said he was just angry that he got too overconfident and let his guard down for a moment as he was winning and got caught for it. He could have gotten up at any time, his mother’s death was the motivation he had for this fight but he didn’t have that same spark against Holyfield when he got dropped and looked like he could continue.

 

It’s a Jack Reiss thang. He’s done something similar before.

 

When Buster arose, about 1/2 a second after Meyran’s toll of “9”, Jim Lamp Post noted that Douglas was still wobbly.

For whatever that’s worth, which may not be a lot given the general “credibility” of the quoted source - but I did/do happen to agree with Lambsy on that particular observation.