Tyson vs Foreman

:rofl Very funny coming from a Klithugger.

 

If Ali never got stripped and banned from boxing neither man would've became champ IMO.

Frazier lacked the technical skills to handle Foreman, Tyson didn't.

 

Let's switch this around for a second. Who is the best fighter Foreman ever beat?
A half-blind Frazier?*
A stiff and immobile Ken Norton?
And?

People like to say Tyson lost to the best guys he fought, but if you think about it, so did George. His 70's record is considerably weaker than Tyson's 80's/early 90's record.
(This is a prime-for-prime matchup I'm guessing, so 90's George doesn't count here. Even if he does, he was a different animal to 70's George in many ways.)

George was, as Larry Merchant once put it, a "tremendous destructive machine - but with flaws." (He also picked Joe Louis to knock prime George out.)

How many punchers did Foreman face during his prime? I can think of two, Frazier and Lyle, and Lyle had him on the deck twice. Frazier barely got the chance to hit George back.

Now what about Tyson? Bonecrusher Smith, Bruno and Ruddock (twice) were all bigger men and better punchers than Lyle and they had proven power. None dropped Tyson. Okay, strictly speaking Tyson wasn't exactly prime self against Ruddock, but he was still pretty sharp in those fights.

Goerge was a huge hitter, but not a technically good puncher. He often threw arm punches and his punches lacked precision and snap. He bludgeoned guys with big wrecking-ball type punches, but how many guys did he knock clean out? How many guys did he KO with one shot? Why did so many of his opponents keep getting up?

Obviously despite his technical deficiencies he got guys out of there and whatever he did worked for the most part, but Tyson was more elusive than any of George's KO victims, and had a better chin as well.

Tyson by comparison to George was a much more technically proficient (and for my money better) puncher. He had better timing, faster hands and also much better accuracy. Even George himself was moved to remark once that Tyson was one of the most accurate punchers he had ever seen.
He was also a true combination puncher unlike George, who threw lots of leather but not in calculating fashion.
Where George would bludgeon you, Tyson would spear you. Tyson knocked out some pretty durable guys, often with one shot. Berbick, Spinks, Botha, and Tubbs come to mind. All were dispatched with one swift shot. Carl Williams had a suspect chin but it wasn't bad and Tyson starched him with a single left hook.
The very durable Pinklon Thomas was knocked out with a great combination. George never did anything like that.
It looked awesome when he bounced Joe around the ring like he did, but let's not forget Frazier got up six times!

I love watching the destructive power of Big George, but aside from his poor punching technique, he was horribly flawed defensively. It could be argued that his offence was his defence.
In some of his early fights he was laughably wild and off-balance when attacking, and Muhammad Ali brutally exposed George's defensive woes with sharp, spearing punches that bounced off George's head time and again. Foreman simply had no answer to Ali's punches.
George tried to ward off punches by throwing his arms up in the air (something Razor Ruddock used to do too, ironically) but that hardly constitutes good defensive ability. I think Tyson would have a field day finding George's face.

With that out of the way, let's look at styles. People say styles make fights so fair enough.

Tyson and Frazier were both short, pressure fighters. To me, the similarity ends there.
The biggest difference is that Joe started slowly and only got going after a couple of rounds. Tyson by comparison literally leapt out of the blocks and imposed his fight on the other guy right away. George was a fast starter himself which helped him against Joe, but that advantage is taken away against Tyson.

Frazier's style was more suited to fighting with his head on your chest, banging away in close. He'd dip in really low and come up with the left hook.
Tyson would force his way inside differently.
He used remarkably good footwork to close the gap very quickly, using subtle head movement to evade jabs as he came in.
Tyson was more comfortable at mid-range, and not as willing to bang in close as was Frazier. Frazier bobbed and weaved as a matter of course, whereas Tyson would use more of a reaction type defensive setup, relying on supreme reflexes to avoid punches. He also rarely dipped as low as Joe did and employed a more upright style and thus for me was not as vulnerable to uppercuts, which was one of the primary Foreman punches that destroyed Frazier.

But who says Tyson would be the one going on the defensive here? As the fighter with the quicker hands and more forceful style, I'm willing to bet the first hard punch will be landed by him.
Goerge was a strange cat when hit hard or when threatened. He'd fight with a certain desperation and get very sloppy as a result. Dangerous yes, but still sloppy and hittable.
Against Joe he felt intimidated and came out swinging. Same with Norton. Against Lyle he faced someone who could hurt him, and he went after Lyle, almost paying the price in the 4th when he fell heavily and was saved from a possible knockout by the bell.

I'm willing to bet he does the same against Tyson when finding out how hard Mike hits. To me, that's a one-way ticket to his own destruction as he'd become wild and sloppy. He may catch Tyson with a few bombs, but he'd be catching more leather in return.

Pushing Tyson back would be counter-productive. He'd be pushing Tyson back right into the range where Tyson was most effective and he could catch George coming in with those quick accurate shots.
George has the reach advantage, but so did everyone Tyson faced.

That brings me to another point. George overwhelmed guys with size and overall physicality, but in Tyson he would be facing a guy equally as heavy (if shorter) who was used to facing guys who were as big as George, or bigger.
Big George would not be so big in this fight, nor would it matter anyway.
Stamina? Both were front runners but although Tyson was less effective as the rounds wore on, so was George. I think Tyson did on occasion show an ability to pace himself and show patience. George rarely, if ever, did.

Weighing up the respective strengths, weaknesses and how much they matter in this fight, I think Tyson is the one with more to work with in this fight.
I see a knockout for Tyson anywhere between the 4th and 7th rounds.

*Many knowledgeable posters say Joe was physically well past his prime when facing George.

 

Both these guys are ATG's, but there is still quite a difference between them. Foreman was a HUGE puncher, super aggressive who swung wide hooks with both hands and had a pretty good jab when he decided to use it. Tyson was also a huge puncher, who punched much straighter, much faster and in very fluid combinations. Tyson's defense was light years ahead of George's.

I see George getting stopped, how is he supposed to win it?

 

It would be all in the mind. Both can obviously end it with one punch but George had a better chin.

I cant recall one person get in the ring with George with an attitude that theyve already lost the fight.

Nearly all of Mikes opponents had fear written all over them. Only Tucker, Lewis and Buster overcame the fear ( until he became a joke of course ).

There was an article on Eastside a few years ago where the Tyson camp admitted that Mike was **** scared of a 40yo Foreman and told them if they want a Foreman fight, they get in the ring. Mike would have been just like Mikes opponents, loser before he stepped in.

 

He got beaten badly because the fight happened 17 yrs after he turned pro, I'd love to see how good Lewis would've looked in 06, anyway he KO'd a shot fighter that night, who was too broke to retire when he wanted too back in 99-2000.

 

Bull ****, another myth, Foreman had stated numerous times that at his age he wouldn't get in the ring with Tyson, he also stated he wanted no part of Lewis or Bowe, BTW Foreman looked like crap against Morrison, Shultz and Saverese, he would have have got KTFO.

 

Is it only me who doesn't think Foreman was all that great? A seriously bad punching style. Tyson KO8.

 

foreman. this fight is all about mindset, tyson would try to get big and wind up getting the **** knocked out of him by foreman. i think foreman would be able to handle his explosiveness using his reach, i say this ends in foreman KOing tyson in 4.

 

Foreman is the slow one with poor defense so I see him getting caught more often than Tyson.

 

i dont know man, if foreman fought smart, tucked his elbows in and focused on the defense, he could churn out a 5th round knockout. (**** it ill retract the original 4th round predic.) frustrate the **** out of tyson, then push hooks into his face.

 

Tyson was much quicker than Foreman and had much better defense. Prime Tyson would get inside and land good combinations on Foreman and eventually KO him.

I think most people are under rating prime Tyson because of the years followed but whatever.

 

Both guys hit REALLY hard. Prime Tyson takes this fight on speed and combination punches as well as his underrated prime defense. His punches land quicker and more often. Post prison Tyson gets bombed out against young Foreman but Mikes prime is a whole different fighter.

 

Tyson via stoppage: circa round 8. Better defence, faster hands, equal power and better movement/fundamentals.