Tyson vs Holmes discussion

Just goes to show how great Lenni was, Tyson was a year younger and a washed up has been while King Lenni was still on top

 

This post shows your ignorance about Boxing and fight styles. The likes of Marciano, Joe Frazier, Jack Dempsey with aggressive, high work rate Styles were all finished and washed up by the time they reached 30. Tyson was the same and was touching 36 by the time this irrelevant encounter which Lenni desperately needed to add some credibility to his reign occured.

The likes of Holmes, Lenni, Ali have fighting styles i.e. dancing, low work rate, convervative and take your time approach which allows for a longer career.

 

If I'm not mistaken Marciano went out on top, Frazier was washed up because he'd been in some of the most brutal and competative fights the sport has ever seen, meanwhile Tyson was sparked out by a fat journeyman at 23...:rofl

 

Again another flaw in judging old time fighters. Just because Frazier has been in wars, it could be argued maybe they were unnecessary wars and had he been a better fighter he should have starched his opponents in 3-5 rounds?

It is still argued that Marciano beat around 3-4 washed up fighters and fought mediocre opposition compared to the 70's?

Why should the fact that the likes of Ali, Frazier e.t.c were in wars be held against Tyson? Maybe if Tyson of 1985-88 fought most of the opposition in 70's he would have starched them earlier and spectacular fashion only for the likes of you to demean those fights and call those opponents Bums.

 

You brought them into the equation not me silly, now you're trying to say Tyson faced stiffer completion than the fighters of the 70's... :rofl

 

I only bought them when explaining fighting styles and age. It would be a good debate on how Tyson would do against the fighters of the 70's. Most observers and ****ysts already have agreed that he would beat Joe Frazier with ease. Apart from Ali and Foreman how would he do against everyone else?

 

Can people stop acting if Holmes' is underrated, or at least for the most part accept he is probably about as close as I've seen to the guy that gets rated after Ali and Louis on this board. I don't have a problem with people rating him as no.3 or those that do, but this Holmes' is under appreciated .... Holmes' doesn't receive enough credit bull **** is starting to get on my titties.

 

Holmes came at the wrong time. He was always under Ali's shadow. Had he come in the 90's, he might have more appreciation. People complain of Lenni being under appreciated, i think Holmes has a stronger case of under appreciation.

 

I do see it, but he falls short in areas that are more important to me than others, hence why I have Holmes floating inside the top 10 of my heavyweights. I don't even disagree with the fact that he'd have probably beaten Witherspoon, Norton and Weaver (he did eventually) in rematches, or that he was undoubtedly the best heavyweight in the world form when he held the title till he eventually lost it in disputed fashion compared to Spinks, but for one reason or another, out of his control or not, he didn't rematch these fights or become the undisputed champion.

Like you mentioned, timing was key. He has a real good list of names on his resume, he just fought them all at the wrong time and the fact that a few managed to give him problems means an argument can be formed that he may not have performed as consistently as he did had they been a few fights more experienced or a little less battle-worn

 

One more thing I'd like to add and read into it what you will because it's highly critical. Look at what Ali lost in three years out the ring. Admittedly he did have a tune up, but took on a prime Frazier a fight later. Look how Holmes performed after 2 years out against a prime Tyson

It's harsh on Holmes to compare him to Ali, but we have to compare Holmes to the greatest, if not second greatest heavyweight of all time to give cadence on where we place him as individuals.

Wlad seems to be suffering from the same fate, living in the shadow of the 90s era, so I'll be intrigued to see how the next great heavyweight after himself is portrayed and may help me sympathise for Holmes. It's a shame most of my posts seem to degrade him, maybe I'm a hater still a huge fan though.

 

Holmes wasn`t at his best but at the same time Tyson went in there and got the job done the way a great fighter is supposed to.

 

I think Tyson is finally getting some credit for his accomplishments. People seem to have discounted the win because of Holmes touring with his band and bunch of other **** to which Holmes kind of fed into as well, but leading up to the fight Holmes had fought in a 12 round exhibition fight and was said to look pretty sharp. Tyson just hit him with a great right hand of which he couldnt recover from. Once he was hurt Holmes had never experienced a finisher as good as Tyson was. He would have never made it out of that fight. As said Holmes went on to fight well and was never knocked out again before or after.

 

I was shocked Holmes took this fight under those conditions. He looked like a shell of himself. I know King offered him big money but to take the fight after nearly a 2 year layoff and on short notice seemed extreme. While I don't think the result is indicative of the result if they met in their respective primes, Tyson seems to receive unfair flak for beating who was put in front of him.

 

A Tyson-Holmes fight was thisclose to being signed in 1986 but Tyson would've been blocked out of the HBO tournament if it went through. As promised Jacobs and Cayton agreed to give Holmes a title shot if Tyson won the unification. So Holmes always knew a potential fight with Tyson was in the works since '86.

The proud champion he was, Holmes would never, ever come into a fight unprepared or only for the money. I mean even today the man is such a chap ass in interviews as his pride always gave him that extra chance for greatness. Extra incentive to prove he was the best.

Even 4 years later, and fatter, Holmes didn't come close to sniffing the canvas. The man was greatness personified with a ship load of savvy, but I think Tyson would always have his number.