Tyson vs. Marciano: The myth of "intagibles"

Marciano did not have the better chin, he had the better heart. Tyson's chin was of such quality that it took sustained beatings from big 1 punch KO HW's to put him out.

Tyson is severely underrated in this respect. There is no way Marciano had more power at the end of the day also.

 

Both had very good chins, hard to say who´s better. But I say Marciano, he was never KO´d against fighters like Douglas, McBride, Williams, etc. Marciano had the better one-punch, he showed that with some great one-punch KO- wins over opposition Tyson in general never beat, KOing fighters like Etienne, Botha, etc. with one punch doesn´t count that much for me...

 

We're talking about a peak Tyson Luigi.

It took Douglas 10 rounds of a sustained beating to win by KO. The Williams and McBride losses were KO's losses, but 'collapses', Tyson was not 'KOed', he was concious.

Marciano was decked by Moore, a LHW hitter. Where as Tyson took monster bombs from Lennox Lewis, bombs that I don't think Marciano could take the same.

Tyson is a superior fighter to Marciano, as is Frazier a superior fighter to Marciano. Most people feel Tyson beats Frazier, most people also feel Frazier beats Rocky, let's put everything together and see that Tyson should obviously be favoured.

 

We´re talking about prime, what a new thing. In a matchup, we always take both at their absolutely best. Douglas was a mediocre hitter, it´s normal that he couldn´t KO someone with only one punch. Moore was a former LHW, that´s right. But he proved even at HW that he could KO big, good and durable HW´s with one punch. A thing Douglas for example couldn´t. Marciano was KD against Archie and Jersey Joe, but that were only flash KD´s and we all know how "The Rock" reacted, with your example about "Frazier better than Marciano, Tyson better than Frazier etc." perhaps exists in the General Boxing Forum, where 15 years-old teenagers look at both fighters (just the looking) and immediately say "Tyson would murder him!", but real boxing experts don´t espouse this false and fabulous these...

 

You are assuming that Rocky will land enough on Tyson.

People often forget that peak Tyson was very hard to land cleanly on and was a dangerous counterpuncher who made you pay a heavy price for missing any punch. Which is part of the reason why guys became hesitant to throw against Tyson. Not because they where ''petrified'but because Tyson made you pay for every missed punch.

Trying to brawl with a combination puncher with the chin to take your best shot and the defense and countering skills to make you pay for every missed punch is a bad idea

 

I'm not a huge Tyson fan, but if this fight could somehow take place, my money would be on him. I believe there is a myth that needs clarification. Firstly I don't care if you're name is Marciano, Ali, Foreman, Tyson or Holyfield, if you get hit hard enough and often enough you go down period. These are after all human beings we're talking about. And while you can will yourself to fight through pain, and blood, you really can't will yourself not to get KO'd because the lights simply go out.

Speed clearly goes to Tyson, as does defense, these factors alone would matter. Chin in my opinion also goes to Tyson, getting hit by Moore, isn't in the same league as taking bombs from Lewis. I really can't imagine many fighters taking the type of bombs Lewis threw at Tyson, which were in the same ballpark as he punch which KO Rahman and the uppercuts were similar to the one's Grant and V.K. ate.

I'm not sure who hits harder, although I would suspect Tyson, but given the speed and defensive advantages it really wouldn't matter, nor would a single punch do the job in any event, but repeatedly landing combinations would. So
unfortunately I think the lights would go out on Marciano and that would be that. Add to that is my belief that this isn't a marathon event, it wouldn't likely go beyond the mid rounds, so Marciano's legendary stamina, isn't the huge factor some had thought it might be.

As to other issues namely the weight difference and who starts off faster, I personally would sooner weigh more than less, and I think starting off quickly, is better than not. Both are fairly obvious I would think.

 

Of course one uncertainty here is that neither Tyson or Marciano has ever fought anybody remotely like the other.

 

Tyson was indeed hard to hit cleanly with scoring blows. Marciano did damage with non-scoring blows (like the one to LaStarza's bicep which turned a round Marciano was deducted for a low blow into one where he actually came out ahead). Ali, Tunney and Holmes would have done better against Marciano by minimizing getting hit flush anywhere on their bodies.

Any suggestion that Tyson would somehow put out Marciano's lights is extremely presumptuous. Nobody ever came close to doing this.

In the first match with Walcott, Jersey Joe surprised Rocky by immediately trying to tear his head off. Tyson would have been expected by Marciano and Goldman to start that way, and have been prepared accordingly. (For the rematch, Marciano and Goldman were prepared for the possibility of a strong aggressive start by Jersey Joe, and Walcott paid the consequences.)

Concerning Archie Moore, it's helpful to remember that he had a hand in developing both Shavers and Foreman, helping each to cultivate their own punching power. Ted Lowry went 20 rounds with Marciano, and pegged Moore as the hardest puncher he ever was hit by, regardless of weight. Moore was also the most prolific knockout artist in history, producing a much higher percentage of stoppage wins than Stribling. (If Stribling had boxed until retirement, the knockout record he would have left would have been completely out of Archie's reach, but the Mongoose's knockout percentage would have still been much higher.)

Archie Moore was also involved in training Eddie Mustafa Muhammad for a time, yet another noted power puncher with superb technique.

Marciano was momentarily dropped by what was probably the hardest single punch of Moore's long distinguished career.

Keep in mind that Marciano might not be aiming for Tyson's head. How hard was his body to hit cleanly on?

Rocky was used to dealing with taller opponents with a longer reach. Tyson wasn't. Tyson would be the bigger target in this situation, and Marciano generated power with his punches coming up. Big strong Rex Layne discover how hard it was to try bulling Rocky around. Tyson would be the one forced to concede territory to the anchor footed Blockbuster, and with Marciano holding the centerline, Tyson would be facing an arduous task indeed.

 

...and many classic posters take it to the other extreme. Some of you would love to believe that 185 pound brawlers could be dominant in today's heavyweight game (in, say, a catchweight contest), but it's just unrealistic, despite the rubbish that's around today. One-off wins here and there maybe but nothing more. Archie Moore, for example, likely couldn't take the kind of punches he did against Marciano if he was fighting Tyson. He be Ko'd fairly quickly if we're truly going to predict with our heads not hearts. He certainly wouldn't have the wherewithal to bounce up four times. I don't think Marciano has much chance here, he'd cut early forcing the ref's intervention around the 6th.

 

Maybe he was on 'roids', but the 1988 version of Tyson beats the 1953 version of Marciano any day. Now, if Rocky was allowed to take roids we may have a different story.

 

Just laughing at the whole 'kerboodle', especially your 'new' name. :good

 

Not much. Bill's been banned from coming on by Larry because he only gave Peanut Head 8 rounds in the first Spinks fight. He's banned from Larry's gym too, until he re-scores giving The Mallard at least a 12-3 margin.

 

Which great fighter in his prime did rocky beat? Exactly he beat a shot ex champ and a bunch of LHWs.