Tyson vs. Marciano: The myth of "intagibles"

Insightful slant on Tyson's mentality.

Mike Tyson was a boxing scholar at 19, as a historian and, of course, as a pugilist. He knew his tremendous superior ability. And he performed, bringing new things to the table, showing the world a heavyweight with a big punch and blazing hand speed, becoming the youngest heavy champ ever, and, quite simply, raising the bar with unprecedented performances in the ring.

It is wrong to say Tyson was merely a mentally-imploding front-runner. The man had the heart of a champion, for he became the most feared undisputed heavyweight champion of all time (Douglas, down 50-1).

I have always believed that when young Mike lost his idealism (enter Robin Givens) he lost his edge, as Ironchamp has well explained, and Tokyo was just around the corner.

 

Marciano wins. I think two things are missing here, or rather underrated, and overratted.

Underrated:

Marciano was harder to hit with a clean shot than he is given credit for. Its one of the reasons he got cut, from grazing shots. Many of his opponents said this; Moore, Charles, and Walcott. Even at 46 years old (Ali said, during their computer fight) how hard Rocky was to hit, and how hard he hit to the body, even with short punches.

I believe that Marciano hit harder after 7-8 rds than Tyson. Just watch the films. Tyson hit hard also, but how many KO's did Tyson have after the 8th rd of any fight? Rocky kept his power the whole way.

Overrated:

Tyson's and ability to take punches late in a fight. The one great right hand shot that Hoyfield hit Tyson with late in the 1st fight, was the end for Tyson. Does anyone really think that that punch was harder than the right hand Marciano hit Walcott with in the 13th rd of their 1st fight? Or any of the hard shots Rocky hit Moore, or Lastrza late in their title fights? Does anyone think that Tyson would be better at avoiding (than Moore) the punches that Rocky rained down on Moore late in that fight? Very doubtful.

Tysons Heart, he quit everytime he got in a real fight. he never got up to win a fight. Yes he stayed in to take a beating with Hoylfield, Lewis, and Douglas but really didn't try to win after they fought back. Can you even imagine Tyson being way behind like Rocky was aganist Walcott, and coming back to win? He would have folded up, just like he would with Marciano.


After few exciting rds Tyson would just look for a way out. Barring a cut (which could very well happen) Tyson stay in there, and let himself be beat up to make it look good, but in the end he would lie down.

 

oh man, Marciano would get killed in this fight. This is absolutely a horrible style matchup for him, and the worst guy he could ever run into. Tyson's way faster, hits harder, technically a better boxer in every way - defense, offense, you name it. Oh and did I mention he's bigger? Don't get me wrong, Marciano's chin would keep him in the game longer and he would show great heart, but it would only delay the inevitable.

Those who are saying Tyson would tire in the later rounds, that's absurd. First of all this wouldn't reach the later rounds, but even if it did, Tyson NEVER got tired in his hey-day, ever. Name me one fight he gassed out pre-1990, there is none. In fact, I've never seen him gas except later in his career, post-1996. He had amazing stamina in his prime - a perfect physical specimen.

I have total respect for Marciano, but this fight has all the makings of a train-wreck for him.

 

"Total respect", kinda laughable when the ATG HW you say you are giving respect to would get "killed" by the likes of a Mike Tyson.

? Tyson, the Prime guy, how many times did he get into a late round fight against a great fighter?

? Tyson, did he ever deal well with a fighter that looked head on into his assumed invincibility and laughed at said invincibility?

Marciano, well there isn't much to question, now is there?

I suppose one could come on here and state Holy is Marciano's worst nightmare in the same breath..

 

1. The assumption that Marciano would laugh at Tyson's said invinciblity.

2. You make somewhat valid points, but they really wouldn't factor into this fight. Tyson's simply too big, and too talented for Marciano. He would man-handle him. I'm sorry, but there's no way a smaller guy is going to beat up and knock Tyson out, especially by coming forward and brawling with him, which is absolutely the worst thing you could do against a prime Tyson.

 

How did you answer the question marks in front of Tyson with this? I never said Marciano would laugh at anything, but others Tyson fought may have laughed. Marciano would have respected Tyson.

 

Shhh, don't say you respect Marciano but you'd feel he'd lose.

Impossible double standard.

 

My mistake. I respect your opinion, but I believe Marciano is just technically and physically at too much of a disadvantage in this fight. The idea that his heart and chin are going to carry him through .. I just don't see that happening. Even if he lasted past a few rounds, I don't think it would matter. His technical/physical disadvantages + his super old-school style is just not a good formula against Tyson. I'll concede someone like Holyfield or Foreman possibly beating Tyson, but not Marciano. Style's make fights.

 

So your saying a cruiserweight with nowhere near the two fisted power, punching abilities of marciano can outbrawl tyson but rocky has no chance?

 

No, thats not what he said. He said " styles make fights". And by the way, Marciano was no bigger than Holyfield was even during his cruiserweight days.

 

I think Tyson would beat marciano, but the reasons stated here by "tyson supporters" are god awful reasons.


God Awful Reasons


- Marciano lacks physical tools
- Tyson is faster, harder hitting, bigger, stronger
- Tyson is too skilled for marciano
- no smaller guy is going to come into tyson and knock him out
- tyson is going to wreck marciano, marciano has no chance




Very good reasons why tyson would win

- Tysons short compact stature will allow him to land cleaner punches in that tricky low crouch of marciano

- Tyson's superior mid range fighting and combination punching abilities will allow him to outduel Marciano in exchanges

- Despite Marcianos superior inside fighting abilities, Tyson had the strength and defensive abilities to neutralize marcianos effectiveness on the inside, and allow tyson to land the counter uppercuts which marciano was susceptible too.

- Tyson doesn't need to knock marciano out, he can patiently and effectivley execute his game plan that will allow him to counterpunch marciano and his underated intangibles will allow him to continue the assault in the late rounds enabling him to decision marciano if he can't put the tough rock away early. If need.

 

:good I agree

 

Marciano can keep Tyson from landing by landing himself. Marciano picked up the speed and pace when the fighter did, Marciano was pretty fast in return and did not get hit as cleanly as some say, he rolled pretty well. Tyson when hit became less agresive, when Tony Tucker landed a good shot, his aggression faded to a one-two and a lot of holding. The thing with Tyson is that you had to let him feel the power. Its not like Marciano would let him hit and not hit back and when it came to getting off the floor to win, Marciano did it,Tyson never got off the floor to win or came back from adversity. These are important factors and Marciano is head and shoulders over Tyson in that area not to mention mental strength

 

The real question is what will happen when Marciano lands a few hard shots on Tyson? The answer he mentally folds up. and then physically folds after taking a beating (he would always take his beating) goes down and out.

It seems to me that the issue of big vs small here is what everybody keys in on. Ask yourself this if Tyson were of the same basic size as Marciano 5'11"/188, or Marciano was the same basic size as Tyson 5"11 215, would there even be a question as to who would win? I think once you are over 200, as a real heavyweight, not a blown up Roy Jones, or Toney Heavyweight. Size makes a smaller impact than most people think. Jack Dempsey destroyed Willard, who was a champion and the biggest of his day. Joe Louis crushed many guys way bigger than him.
So did Tyson.

Tyson has one chance in this fight. Land heavy early and hope the ref stops, or hope to open a cut. If it goes past 5 Tyson is dogmeat.