Tyson vs. Sullivan, Fitz, Jeffries on the Same Night

Pachilles · Jun 17, 2010

Janitard you are full of ****, bra. I respected you, but you're clearly a zealot.

janitor · Jun 17, 2010

Pachilles said: ↑

Janitard you are full of ****, bra. I respected you, but you're clearly a zealot.
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If Sullivan, Fitzsimmons and Jeffries are looking down on us now they are probably saying:

"I am glad the zealout is on our side. At least he has read up on our era"

PetethePrince · Jun 17, 2010

Unforgiven said: ↑

Seriously though, Sullivan might have been better than Tyson.

... or he might have been worse than Jesse Ferguson.

We just cant tell.
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This is just some awful reasoning. And a real sad state on the evolution, or lack there of in boxing if that's the case.

Boilermaker · Jun 17, 2010

Unforgiven said: ↑

Seriously though, Sullivan might have been better than Tyson.

... or he might have been worse than Jesse Ferguson.

We just cant tell.
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In all seriousness though, same could be said of Wladimir Klitchsko, couldnt it? Wlad has a better record against common opponents, but they were a lot older and past it than when Jesse faced those guys.

Who is to say that Jesse Ferguson doesnt upset Wladimir, if they meet?

Unforgiven · Jun 18, 2010

PetethePrince said: ↑

This is just some awful reasoning. And a real sad state on the evolution, or lack there of in boxing if that's the case.
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Why is it awful reasoning ?

Unforgiven · Jun 18, 2010

Boilermaker said: ↑

In all seriousness though, same could be said of Wladimir Klitchsko, couldnt it? Wlad has a better record against common opponents, but they were a lot older and past it than when Jesse faced those guys.

Who is to say that Jesse Ferguson doesnt upset Wladimir, if they meet?
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I've seen enough of Jesse Ferguson and Wladimir Klitschko to see that Klitschko was better.

Unforgiven · Jun 18, 2010

he grant said: ↑

His style is pretty much undisputed .. he had very fast hands, terrific stamina, a very good chin and legitimate one punch power. He was not a defensive wizard. He never fought anyone close to Tyson.
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Sounds pretty good to me. I can think of fighters with one or two of those qualities missing that I'd give a great chance against Tyson.

PowerPuncher · Jun 18, 2010

janitor said: ↑

Well Sullivan weighed more than 200lbs in all of his queensbury fights, so it is not even as if Tyson has much of a weight advantage, and no I don't think that these fighters would have been easy matches for anybody.

Some rather average fighters made it out of the first round against Tyson as is the case with every other heavyweight champion. A fisrt round knockout of an all time great is something of an aberation that is unlikely to be repeated with any sort of consistency.

The idea of Tyson, or Louis or Dempsey or whoever KOing multiple elite level oponents back to back in a single round is something that only happens in the fantasies of their most deuded fanboys.

To take an extreme case yes, but I doubt that he could have beaten Spinks, Smith and Berbick in the same night, or even Spinks, Berbick and Bruno.

Shows how little you know about Jeffries.

None of these fights would be easy for Tyson as a stand alone event, never mind three of them back to back.

What order is Tyson going to take them in?

Lets assume he takes Sullivan first and gets past him. He is going to have been throwing punches hard for four orr six rounds and be badly beaten up. His initial whirlwind assult os going to be prety much spent going into the second fight and he is going to have taken punishment.

Does he even make it past Bob Fitzsimmons next?

If he does he is going to be in no state to go fifteen rounds with Jeffries.

Basicaly once Tyson has spent his intital opening assult, whichever two fighters are left will pick him apart, assuming he gets past the first one.
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Sullivan looked very overweight at 200lbs, kind of like Tyson at 240lbs but Tyson didn't have a big pregnant beer belly like Sullivan. Boxing like all physical sports has progressed, these men are all outclassed in every facet of the sport.

What gloves would be worn? If its those tiny things the old timers wore Tyson is going to near kill a man with 1 punch, and he'd land it fast. If its the 10oz modern gloves Fitz/Sullivan/Jeffries have little power to bother Tyson

As for average fighters making it out of the first with Tyson, sure but they were massively bigger than Sullivan/Fitz. How many looked as fragile as Sullivan, a man with such a weak body is not taking Tyson's best and he certainly doesn't have the speed or skill to outbox him

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Imagine that stance with Tyson bobbing and weaving and throwing a massive left hook to the body and head, followed by precise combination after combination
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enquirer · Jun 18, 2010

Charlie chaplin ko1 pachilles.

teeto · Jun 18, 2010

enquirer said: ↑

No troll.
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:rofl:rofl

Unforgiven · Jun 18, 2010

PowerPuncher said: ↑

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Imagine that stance with Tyson bobbing and weaving and throwing a massive left hook to the body and head, followed by precise combination after combination
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This stance isn't much better ....

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Flea Man · Jun 18, 2010

The chick in Pachilles' avi is a dude.

Kalasinn · Jun 18, 2010

Unforgiven said: ↑

This stance isn't much better ....

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Come on, even you know that's not Buster's real stance.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xW3LWdyRzs[/ame]

janitor · Jun 18, 2010

PowerPuncher said: ↑

Sullivan looked very overweight at 200lbs, kind of like Tyson at 240lbs but Tyson didn't have a big pregnant beer belly like Sullivan.

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Where was the photo taken and when?

Sullivan weighed in at over 240lbs for many of his exhibition bouts and aparently carried the weight prety well.

Boxing like all physical sports has progressed, these men are all outclassed in every facet of the sport.

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I disagree.

What gloves would be worn? If its those tiny things the old timers wore Tyson is going to near kill a man with 1 punch, and he'd land it fast. If its the 10oz modern gloves Fitz/Sullivan/Jeffries have little power to bother Tyson

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Sullivan fought many bouts with 8oz gloves, as some states mandated them, so I dont think 10oz gloves would cause him any undue distress.

Tyson on the other hand migfht well strugle with 4oz gloves because they would provide less suportfor the wrist and less protection for the hand. He would have to learn new punching techniques to adapt.

As for average fighters making it out of the first with Tyson, sure but they were massively bigger than Sullivan/Fitz.
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I knew that you value a win over a good big heavyweight more than a great smaller one, but I didn't know that you valued a win over an average big heavyweight more than great smaller one.

How many looked as fragile as Sullivan, a man with such a weak body is not taking Tyson's best and he certainly doesn't have the speed or skill to outbox him

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I have heard Suillivan called many things but never fragile.

As for his speed and skill, you can only guess what they are.

Jeffries on the other hand could probably toss Tyson over his shoulder.

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Imagine that stance with Tyson bobbing and weaving and throwing a massive left hook to the body and head, followed by precise combination after combination

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You ought to know that this is a posed photograph and does not reflect the stance that Sullivan actualy fought out of.

In Queensbury bouts Sullivan used a low crouch, so he would almost certainly present Tyson with a target lower than himself. This is going to turn many aspects of Tysons style on their head.

Tyson is going to be coming forward against a fighter in a low crouch, with power and handspeed almost equal to his own, who probably wants the win more than he does.

This would be like no fight he had ever in before and it would be a serious test.
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Unforgiven · Jun 18, 2010

Kalasinn said: ↑

Come on, even you know that's not Buster's real stance.
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Exactly.

...... and what's the evidence that John L.Sullivan fought in this exact stance ?

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