Tyson vs. Sullivan, Fitz, Jeffries on the Same Night

He didnt.

Contemporary acounts are prety clear on his stance in queensbury bouts, and we have photographic evidence of his stance in a bareknuckle bout (Killrain).

 

I never agreed that was Sullivan's real stance, which it clearly isn't, refer to janitor's last post.

 

I never advocated that the Buster picture depicted Douglas's real stance either.
I was making the point to powerpuncher, who was suggesting the Sullivan pic DOES portray Sullivan's real stance as would be used against Tyson.

and you got involved and told me "Come on, even you know that's not Buster's real stance."

:huh

 

My mistake, for all I knew you would post a fake-stance posing photo of Buster and try to pass it off as his actual stance due to your motives against Tyson, just as powerpuncher posted Sullivan posing for his motives against him.

 

Yes but Corbett who's stance looked similar, fought in a similar straight up manner, I posted a picture of Sullivan posing for a fight, you posted a pic of Buster that isn't even a boxing stance its a random publicity picture for gym machinery

Anyway Douglas was an athletic 6'4, 230lb man with a 83inch reach, not a short weakling with a beer belly, completely incomparable

 

Here are some contemporary descriptions of Sullivans stance:

“The secret of the champions prowess is apparent. He carries his strongly muscled shoulders forward. The consequence is that when he delivers a blow he doesn’t have to bring the upper part of his body forward in the delivery. The arm straightens out and the blow is with a suddenness which seems paralysing to the spectators, to say nothing of the man in front of him. He stands with one foot well behind and his body pressing forward”.

St Louis paper quoted by Adam Pollack

“The superiority of Sullivan lies in his extraordinary nervous force and altogether incomparable skill as a boxer. In what does this extraordinary skill consist? In hitting as straight and almost as rapid as light, in the variety and rediness of his blows, in standing firmly on his feet and driving his whole weight and nervous force at the end of his fist- a very rare and high quality in a boxer, in movements as quick and purposeful as the leap of a lion. He can duck lower than any featherweight boxer in America”.

John Boyle O’Reiley

Although Sullivan planted his feet and put most of his body weight behind his blows he seems to have also employed leaps to close distance or fire a punch over an opponents guard:

“Here again Sullivan showed the terrific force with which he delivers his blows jumping forward on his right leg and at the same time apparently and throwing the weight of his whole massive body onto his arms. The movement is executed with lightning like rapidity and it certainly seems that no man can stand up to it”.

San Francisco Chronicle

“The first thing a professor will teach a pupil is to stand in position. He will teach him how to turn his toes out spread his feet so many inches apart, and will try to convince the young man that this position is the only correct one in the world. Now I consider that this is all simple rot. My advice is to stand in whatever way is best suited for your purpouse-whichever way you can hit your opponent the straightes hardes blow and avoid a return by getting away quickly”.

John L Sullivan

 

Some one have pics of the Kilrain fight?? I didnt see Sullivan useing a stance like in that photo.

He was a brawler, 2 fisted and fast. The Kilrain fight pics proves at least Sullivan didnt fight standed up like that.

 

What about Ross Purity, Corey Sanders or Lamon Brewster?

 

Sounds like Sullivan fought in some sort of crouch, and was known for rolling/springing forward with straight punches, rather than some stiff stand-up style like in the posed photographs of that time.

 

Point taken. :good

Anyway, none of this helps us in rating Sullivan head-to-head with fighters of filmed eras. We just dont know.

 

I wouldnt totally discount some of these old timers. I think people today. Particularly younger people dont really understand how physically strong and durable some of these old timers were. Anyone here ever shake the hand of a farmer whose about 80 or so yrs old? He may look like a weak frail old man but he could crush your hand. Thats what a lifetime of extremely hard physical labor can get you.

 

ever punched a farmer in the face at a blistering speed with refined technique? they have no idea how to react

 

Do you think speed and technique were invented yesterday?

 

Yes they doi.