Tysons Legacy Defining Fight

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Azzer85, May 12, 2011.


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  1. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Does losing to hayseed cruiserweights hold Johnson back?

    Does fighting only one colored fighter and sitting on the title while he tooled chorus girls hold Dempsey back?

    Does only defending against old men, light-heavies and guys with glandular problems hold Marciano back?

    Does making only 6 title defenses over 3 years hold Marciano back... while Tyson made 9 over 4 years? And yet the standard for his greatest is must succeed in his 10th?

    More selective standards of judgment favoring the fighter with the more distant birth date, methinks.
     
    Seamus, May 14, 2011
    Seamus, May 14, 2011
    #121
  2. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Depends on your point of view. Tooling chorus girls has to beat getting pummelled by Buster Douglas, IMO. But I probably haven't got a champion mentality.

    They both made 6 successful defences of the 'Undisputed' championship.
    Strictly speaking Tyson was only undisputed for 2 successful defences.
     
    Unforgiven, May 14, 2011
    Unforgiven, May 14, 2011
    #122
  3. ripcity

    ripcity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The Spinks fight. Both were undefeated. Also it was the manner of which he won.
     
    ripcity, May 14, 2011
    ripcity, May 14, 2011
    #123
  4. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    A peculiarity of circumstance that only informs me had Marciano won the title in 86 he would have never gotten to the unification stage.
     
    Seamus, May 14, 2011
    Seamus, May 14, 2011
    #124
  5. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    ...... or, had there been 3-way splintered world title in 1951 he would be credited with more "title wins".
     
    Unforgiven, May 14, 2011
    Unforgiven, May 14, 2011
    #125
  6. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    In all seriousness, I do rate Tyson's reign as very decent.
    I've always felt Ezzard Charles making 9 defences of the NBA/Undisputed championship in 2 years gets a bit overlooked too.
     
    Unforgiven, May 14, 2011
    Unforgiven, May 14, 2011
    #126
  7. Azzer85

    Azzer85 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    In that case, i believe it was the Holyfield or Lewis fights, if he had won either of these, he would have redeemed himself and it would look better on his record and people would forget about James One Hit Wonder Douglas

    Also, i dont really believe that a fighter has to get up off ther canvas to prove their greatness etc etc.

    If Tyson had got up and beat Douglas, i dont see it affecting his legacy that much. But
    it shut up his critics.
    Thats like saying, in order for Mayweather to be considered genuine, hes gotta let somebody knock him down, then get up and win the fight and then well consider him great.

    Lennox Lewis also never got up off the canvas to win a fight . At least Tyson took a sustained beating to get there, so you can see why he couldnt get up. Whats Lennox' excuse???

    Out of his 58 fights, i believe he was only behind on the scorecards against Douglas, Holyfield, Lewis and Botha when the fight was ended.

    Also the difference between Tyson and guys with similar styles like Marciano and Frazier is that they quit at the right time whereas Tyson carried on way past his best.

    Imo he should never have come back after prison.
     
    Azzer85, May 15, 2011
    Azzer85, May 15, 2011
    #127
  8. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I think a comeback win in the second Holyfield fight would have enhanced his legacy no end.
    (I actually think Tyson looked physically and technically in great form in that fight, but mentally he was clearly and completely demented.)

    I have a feeling a KO win over Lennox Lewis, even in 2002, would have been hailed as the greatest comeback ever initially but soon would have been diminished by doubts over Lewis's chin and the general state of the HW division.
     
    Unforgiven, May 15, 2011
    Unforgiven, May 15, 2011
    #128
  9. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    He should never have come back with Don King, after prison.
    Tyson knew what he needed to do. I remember an interview he did shortly before he left jail where he said it would be good to come back as Foreman did, with 20 fights to get sharp with, fighting one a month, but he knew he'd be rushed into big world titles fights and PPV TV schedules.

    On the other hand, Tyson looked just about washed-up against Ruddock BEFORE he went to jail. He looked sloppy as hell, ... and I saw him in 2010 interview saying his heart was no longer in it after the Ruddock fights and he was physically drained and he would never have won the title again if he hadn't been imprisoned.
     
    Unforgiven, May 15, 2011
    Unforgiven, May 15, 2011
    #129
  10. Azzer85

    Azzer85 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Im glad he didnt win the title against Lewis, he only would have lost in his next defence to some inferior fighter like Vitali Klitschko. His reign would not have lasted long.

    He looked great in the second Holyfield fight, because he underestimated him in the first fight and he knew what he had to do to win. However the will to win was gone.

    He knew what he had to do to win, but he simply didnt have the bottle to pull it off
     
    Azzer85, May 15, 2011
    Azzer85, May 15, 2011
    #130
  11. Azzer85

    Azzer85 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Its funny how he earnt upwards of $200 million, yet he comes out of prison..broke. I wonder where all that money went while he was in prison.

    True, he was a very valuable and free agent when he was released. instead he jumped straight back into bed with Don King.
    However, In Kings defence, he had already secured a 5 fight deal with HBO (i think) and recieved the money for it as well $100 million or soemthing like that. So King wasnt going to be denied he had to get Tyson one way or another

    True, he was pretty much finished during the Rudock fights however he still had 1-2 big fights left in him, maybe a Bowe or Holyfield. Prison totally messed that up. But people were quick to jump on the band wagon after his "devastating" kos of...Mcneely, Seldon And Mathis....and Bruno (who hed already Kod before)
     
    Azzer85, May 15, 2011
    Azzer85, May 15, 2011
    #131
  12. Kalasinn

    Kalasinn ♧ OG Kally ♤ Full Member

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    The 5 fight deal was $25million purses each time for fighting McNeeley, Mathis jr, Bruno, Seldon & Holy! :scaredas:

    That puppetmaster King was not going to let his cashcow leave his stable!
     
    Kalasinn, May 15, 2011
    Kalasinn, May 15, 2011
    #132
  13. Azzer85

    Azzer85 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    But u cant really blame King can u, thats a whole lot of money.

    At the end of the day its Tysons fault
     
    Azzer85, May 15, 2011
    Azzer85, May 15, 2011
    #133
  14. Kalasinn

    Kalasinn ♧ OG Kally ♤ Full Member

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    True, Tyson kinda deserved what he got for making the stupid decision of going back to sleeping with the devil.
     
    Kalasinn, May 15, 2011
    Kalasinn, May 15, 2011
    #134
  15. Azzer85

    Azzer85 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    How very nice of King though, to make Tyson all that money.

    However i wonder where Tysons other $200 million went, that he made before prison???
     
    Azzer85, May 15, 2011
    Azzer85, May 15, 2011
    #135
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