Tysons' peak performance/first sign of trouble ahead .

Some folks were concerned after the Frank Bruno fight. There was also some suspicion that things were heading south in the events that occurred following the Spinks in the summer and fall of 1988.

 

His peak performance (if we focus only on the result) is Spinks.
On a technical level, he relied less on his skills since Bruno. But a few factors should be underlined : Bruno came to fight and his clinching/illegal tactics disrupted Tyson's rythm + Tyson had at the time his longest layoff (8 months).
Another point is that Tyson even in 1986/88 showed a lack of head movement or combinations during some parts of his fights.

 

He was eighteen years old vs Tillis ... let's give him a little bit of a fairer assessment ... at eighteen a kid then known as Cassius Clay was fighting three rounders in Louisville ..

 

He was nearly twenty when fighting Tillis, he was just short of two months. Yes, he was young, and the win was still greatly impressive, but it also foreshadows things he has issues with throughout his career, even as he ages into his body more.

 

it’s a ridiculous stretch that can be made about any fighter if you watch to play that … compare him to any other heavyweight champion at 19 … add fighting a big, still extremely good highly experienced long time contender.

 

The statement would be true if put to many of Tyson's later fights- But the point should simply be considered moot because he was 19? I understand that it greatly affected his performance here, and the Tyson of a couple years later likely wouldn't have taken Tillis to a decision, but you have to recognize a pattern here.

 

Where would you say the pattern is?

After Tillis he fought and beat, in order -

Green
Gross
Hosea
Boyd
Frazier
Ribalta
Ratliff
Berbick
Smith
Thomas
Tucker
Biggs
Holmes
Tubbs
Spinks
Bruno
Williams

Despite some of these being accomplished boxer types (some better than Tillis) and including 9 title defenses he was barely losing rounds. He had a couple of 5 second flutters which he came back strongly from. It wasn't until Douglas all those fights later that he capitulated suddenly and barely won a round himself. It's awfully hard to fob all that success of as but everyone else was scared.

 

I never boiled it down to "But everyone else was scared", lol. Tyson didn't become undisputed through intimidation, but through skill, and the prior simply helped- Think Sonny Liston. The pattern was also not accomplished boxer types, but simply men who came forward and brought the fight to Tyson rather than fighting to survive. You see a difference between Tillis and Smith, and that both comes in how each James fought Mike, as well as Tyson's age. Of course, talent and accolades help, too.

 

Trevor Berbick, where he knocked him down three times with one punch to get his first title.


First sign of trouble-- Frank Bruno, where he abandoned a lot of the defensive subtleties that made him great.

 

Many who took the fight to him disappeared very quickly as did plenty of boxers. You had to punch with him at times, you had to keep him busy with your own offense. Absolutely. Of course it was easier said than done.

 

Tillis certainly fought a good fight, but it was a still inexperienced Tyson who probably had a bit of an off night as well.

Every fighter has struggled with someone you wouldn't expect them to, but props to Tillis for the way he fought.

 

Perfectly summed up. We routinely hear of Tillis for Tyson, Cooper for Ali and Bonavena 1 for Frazier but context tells us they weren't the be all and end all to put it mildly.

 

Tyson was phenomenal against Tubbs (a very underrated, beautiful performance) and Spinks, but after that, all the life drama badly affected his life and career. The Bruno fight got postponed, he had a long layoff, he was not sharp against Bruno, got hit a lot, wild swinging, combos diminished. Lack of Rooney as trainer was obvious in the performance.

BUT, then he looked really sharp against Williams. His crispness, speed, compact explosive timing, footwork, and head movement returned. I think he was motivated for that one because he was embarrassed by the Bruno performance, didn’t like the criticism of him and his new team, respected Williams as a fighter, having not only seen him but sparred him as a kid, and so he took him quite seriously.

I honestly believe he thought so little of Douglas that after blowing through Williams with ease, he simply was not motivated, plus the wild, tumultuous, and stressful life he was living finally caught up with him. Why train hard for a guy you perceive as a chinless quitter, a guy who has lost to or struggled with guys you beat with ease? He thought he was going walk in there, hit him once, and it would be over for an easy payday. Woopsie.

I do think he was sharp and in great shape for his fights after that, including Ruddock, but several elements of his game were not the same as they had been previously. The days of true discipline and focus on perfecting his craft under Rooney were over. The trainer needs to be the boss, not the fighter. But after the Spinks fight, Tyson was always the boss of his own training.

 

Great post. I want to say that even against Ruddock, he showed flashes of brilliance and demonstrated some of the best bodypunching and fighting out of clinch he ever did. His overhand right was a thing of beauty too.

 

People are saying they see the signs in the Frank Bruno fight but then in Tyson's very next fight it was business as usual as he poleaxed Carl Williams in 1 round.

If anything i think Tyson's team or Tyson himself didn't pay enough attention to Douglas, the myth amongst boxing fans is that Douglas was a 1 hit wonder that come out of nowhere but this simply isn't true. Douglas was in red hot form he'd had 3 very notable wins back to back firstly vs Mike Williams who he amazingly knocked down 3 times with a jab in a standout performance. Douglas followed that up with very clear decision wins over Trevor Berbick, Oliver McCall, who are good names. Overall Douglas had been undefeated for 3 years and was coming off 3 notable victories

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but let's be real no one really see Tyson's downfall coming hence why he was a 42/1 favourite over Douglas. I think they should've done more research on Douglas as he was a big guy in red hot form and they were too casual about fighting an almost 6'4 83 inch reach opponent.