Undefeated fighters; Invincible or overly cautious?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Drunkenboxer, Jan 3, 2010.


  1. Drunkenboxer

    Drunkenboxer Least Eligible Bachelor Full Member

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    Undefeated fighters. What do we know about them? What do they know about themselves?

    When a fighter is undefeated and has some semblance of credibility in our sport it seems to promote the mentality of the hunted. Like their "0" needs the greatest protection of all. Like the loss of their precious, shiny, perfect "0" is the worst thing that could possibly happen to them.

    Take away the "0", and what generally happens? Fighters go straight out and seek tough fights in an attempt to overturn it, negate it and prove themselves again. Whether it be an immediate rematch, or sliding to a different division and trying to knock the **** out of someone. And they never seem to ****ing stay retired, either. :lol: They're always looking for new challenges and new mountains to climb. One could even say that defeat is a natural part of a fighters development.

    So what's the skinny amongst the hardcore fans? When a fighter leaves the sport undefeated does it say there was no one in or around his weight class that could match him? Or that the ****er didn't try hard enough?
     
  2. Ted Stickles

    Ted Stickles Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Depends on who it is and there competition.....
     
  3. Drunkenboxer

    Drunkenboxer Least Eligible Bachelor Full Member

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    They will be variables in ANY boxing question, but for the most part I think Glen Johnson was right. Undefeated = Overrated.
     
  4. Jack

    Jack Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think it's impossible for a boxer to go undefeated against many great opponents. Just on the styles disadvantages they will face, it shouldn't happen.

    Calzaghe would have lost against a great brawler/slugger.
    Mayweather will lose against a great pressure fighter.
    Ottke would have lost against a semi-decent boxer/brawler/puncher.

    Styles make fights and no boxer in history will make it through their career undefeated, unless there is no competition to beat (Calzaghe) or they won't fight the best (Mayweather).

    Even the best come across guys just wrong for them. Barrera and Jones, Griffith and Carter, Frazier and Foreman, Liston and Ali etc..
     
  5. phierl

    phierl Active Member Full Member

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    nobody is invincible, so if you think undefeated fighters are invincible then yes, they will get overrated. beaten fighters cherrypick as well as unbeaten so I don't see the relation there, just envy.
     
  6. Drunkenboxer

    Drunkenboxer Least Eligible Bachelor Full Member

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    ..."Popped his cherry" is another way of putting it. Pretty apt, top, I think. :yep

    I was actually wondering about PBF's career and how different things would be had he lost the decision to Castillo when I thought of this...
     
  7. ramalinga

    ramalinga Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Bigel Benn was a great slugger and he admitted that Calzaghe would have beaten him. The only fighter I see beating Calzaghe at 168 would be RJJ, because of his other - worldly physical attributes.

    Being undefeated means great consistency and winning fights that could be lost with less than a 110% effort and ability to adapt. Calzaghe could have lost to Eubank and Kessler, Marciano could have lost to Walcott. They kept their 0 in those fights because of that extra determination and mental strength. Many great fighters sometimes had off - nights or let winnable fights slip away. Hopkins fought better competition than Calzaghe but he also gave away two fights to Taylor, something Calzaghe would never let happen. So there are different roads to greatness, some get there through star opponents, others through incredible consistency.
     
  8. Mrtibbs

    Mrtibbs Boxing Addict Full Member

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    That question is too vauge. Depends on the figther (His personality), who is in his division and who he has not fought that he "should"
     
  9. MaliSlamusrex

    MaliSlamusrex Boxing Addict Full Member

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    or option 3.

    3. Politics (aka as money)
     
  10. The Dane

    The Dane Member Full Member

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    Often nowadays (although it has always happened) I think a undefeated fighter will probably be fighting stiffs. There obviously are exceptions (look at Cotto's resume before Margarito or look at Larry Holmes before Michael Spinks).
     
  11. ramalinga

    ramalinga Well-Known Member Full Member

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    But sometimes advesaries seem tougher than they are because of star power. Hopkins' performance against Trinidad was great, but much of that had to do with Trinidad's reputation from 147 - 154. The Eubank that was beaten by Calzaghe would have beaten Trinidad, but he never had the star power of Trinidad.
     
  12. Cobbler

    Cobbler Shoemaker To The Stars Full Member

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    When you've lost to as many journeymen as Glen Johnson has you're pretty much going to say that...
     
  13. gregor

    gregor Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Ottke would've lost anyway without the help from judges and referees.
     
  14. What do they say- the survival rate for everyone drops to 0 on a long enough time line.

    There is always someone out there who can beat them, boxers are not invincible.

    Even the greatest encountered fighters capable of breaking his game apart.
     
  15. JT154lbs.Champ

    JT154lbs.Champ New Member Full Member

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    most undefeated fighters these days beat hand picked bums. but all top 10 fighters of today cherry pick. the difference is that hand picked bums are bums and journey men, the cherrypicked oppents would be low risk high reward say pacs david diaz or moselys mayorga