Underappreciated - In 20 Years...

Not as much as Barrera/Cassa though, hes simply much nearer his prime, you do realise Barrera and Cassa started at lower weights than Marquez dont u?

Anyway also bare in mind he didnt fight any of the young contenders/champions at 130 and 135 (yet)

Plus if rumours are true he's going to be Hatton's sacrificial lamb

 

I'd take Marquez to always beat Barrera.

 

1. Agreed - we argue allot so good to agree on something

2. Had Marquez beating Pac twice although even though in a round by round basis Marquez won for me I though Pac deserved the win in the second fight, if that makes sense. First fight I had Marquez up by 1 point

Marquez wasnt robbed against John, most had John winning who saw the fight, I think most had Norwood beating him fair and square

3. Well most had him losing to Hopkins, but I had him beating Taylor 7-5, but then again I had Spinks beating Taylor too

 

I think Marquez is a little overrated at the moment because of him being a good foil for Pacquaio. Guzman would beat box the ears off Pac and Marquez senselessly

 

It has taken us a while hasn't it?

I think it's hard to make a case for Marquez in the first fight, but a lot of people do. Second fight was very close. I wouldn't begrudge anyone giving it to Marquez. I definitely think he wanted it more in the end.

Most that saw it had John winning the fight? I doubt that.

I had it fairly close, had John down by one, but that is including the two utterly bull**** calls by the ref to deduct points from Marquez. I think one at the most was deductable, but still, even that is a stretch. Marquez looked average that night and really struggled with John's movement but John didn't do enough for me. It was a bit of Cory Spinks-Jermain Taylor scenario for me. Which brings me to the next point....

Yeah most did have him losing to Hopkins. I didn't see it that way myself. In fact I was surprised more than a little that Hopkins remained in the p4p charts after that fight and Winky moved down. Winky was way out of his comfort zone and outlanded Hopkins and I thought did enough to earn the draw. And yet Winky disapppeared from the p4p rankings after that fight.

Regarding Taylor-Spinks, I don't want to get into a debate about it really (shocking fight) but you did claim on the Zab-Locche thread that Spinks outlanded Taylor. That is not true according to punch stats.

http://www.***********.com/forums/view.php?pg=compubox_taylor_spinks_final

 

Damn.... those stats are found on the 'scene' of 'boxing'.

Why do we have that annoying censoring that doesn't allow us to refer to certain boxing sites?

 

Marquez at his best has the style to counter Barrera effectively. In many ways they are similar type of fighters. Barrera is probably more reliable in an all out war. Although Marquez has shown he's good when exchanging for brief periods. But IMO it would be a more cautious type of fight had they met in their primes and that suits Marquez slightly more than Barrera. Not a shut-out my any means, far from it. While Barrera had slowed down himself when they met, he was still throwing the same type of punches he did in his prime. Style wise he hadn't changed. And IMO Marquez wasn't quite as sharp on his feet when they fought. Just watch the Polo for for example. He had a bounce and rhythm 3-4 years ago thats he's now lost, and it showed against Barrera.

I think Marquez has the ability to beat Barrera at his own game; a smart headed Barrera. Thats me coming to the conclusion that it's a tactical affair at long range with some mid-distance exchanges.

No need for any sympathy.

 

I think Hopkins will be though less of in the future, which will put him in better perspective IMO.

 

Why do you think Hopkins will be thought less of in the future?

 

His resume is quite mediocre in comparison to the top MW's he's often rated against. Hopkins is a fighter who is respected and loved by those of his time, but his lack of resume in comparison with his generally very high rating among today's fans IMO may hurt him in future generations when dealing with those who weren't around to have experienced him. This likely happens A LOT with a plethora of fighters throughout history though, which is why rating is so difficult.

 

Larry Holmes probably supports your claim more than any other. And IMO Holmes stands out more than any other fighter, even Lopez. Long reign, weak resume, etc, now most people have him in their top 5 or even 3 at the weight.

 

Lopez is more highly though of due to a general lack of knowledge about his opposition and the circumstances of his career IMO. In other words, by many posters (mostly those just mimicking what they've heard around the forums or having seen bits of footage of his technical abilities versus vastly inferior opponents) he tends to get overrated IMO. It's more due to a lack of knowledge of the lower weights in general, which is a big reason his resume has avoided any kind of criticism, whereas that isn't the case with a guy like Calzaghe, and shouldn't be the case with Hopkins IMHO.