Understanding Deontay Wilder

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by ShortRound, Jul 20, 2022.

  1. ShortRound

    ShortRound Active Member banned Full Member

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    Even in the fights where Wilder was seemingly getting outboxed or it was close (Szpilka, Washington, Ortiz 1, Fury 1, Ortiz 2) everyone knew that the U.S. judges would favour his work: only Ortiz in the rematch was ahead with at least two of the judges at the time of Wilder’s KO and even then, Ortiz still had over 15 minutes left to survive on his feet before he could win a decision. This meant that Wilder (who would have great confidence in landing a critical bomb at any time regardless) was even more able to stay patient and composed, conserve energy, be economical with his output (reducing the risk of a self-inflicted injury) maintain distance, minimise openings (which was very effective: Wilder got hit less by Arreola over 8 rounds and Fury 1 over 12 rounds than Vitali and Wlad did) get a read on the opponent, accumulate damage on them, wait for them to lose focus or become overconfident (Wilder giving up rounds actually helped him in this respect, along with discouraging the opponent from pursuing or sustaining a KO strategy) and snipe them, especially after they’d fatigued and slowed down, making the previous rounds irrelevant (not caring too much about winning individual rounds also gave Wilder more freedom in how he paced himself within rounds).

    Wilder is less likely to lose focus himself because he’s always looking for the chance to set up a knockout punch and not wasting time, energy and taking risks by pointfighting excessively increases his chances of doing so. Wilder’s opponents knew that they had to work harder and take more risks to score points and simultaneously work hard to avoid Wilder’s fast, rangy and devastatingly powerful right hand. Some of Wilder’s opponents have fallen into the comforting but delusional trap of thinking that he’s unskilled, low volume and wins based on luck so they can carefully outbox him for 12 rounds. But even in the rare event that Wilder is outboxed and the fight goes the distance (Fury 1) he’s still hard to beat on points because of A-side and hometown bias (Wilder was given 3 non-KD rounds against Fury 1; even master boxer A-side Wlad was soundly outpointed by Fury) and the scoring effect of any knockdowns he gets: a Wilder KD can turn a round/point for his opponent into two points for him (as well as take something out of the opponent) and 36 minutes is a very long time to land a critical bomb or two. There is method in Wilder’s apparent idiocy and madness, no doubt devised by intelligent trainers. The only way for Wilder’s opponents to circumvent this was to be resolute in pursuing a knockout, which exposed them to more immediate danger (the threat of a terribly humiliating, career-damaging early KO) and they potentially had to deal with a bodyguard doctor (Ortiz 1) and referee (Fury 2) on top of that.

    If Wilder is being pressured or hurt, his attributes (especially his speed, timing, range, power, toughness, determination, unconventionality and experience) make him extremely dangerous regardless. If Wilder is being comprehensively outboxed and it’s late in a fight he will take more risks to land bombs but it’s often advantageous for him to draw his opponent into the later rounds before he seriously unloads, as this greatly reduces the likelihood of him fatiguing or enduring injury well before the 12th round. His omnipresent KO threat (possibly seriously injurious/fatal) deters aggression, provides him with more time and space, enables him to take more risks, encourages his opponents to move excessively and puts immense mental pressure on them, which reduces fatigue, danger and wear for Wilder and compromises the stamina, ring IQ and defence of his opponents. Wilder’s record is highly deceptive: it was to his advantage for most of his championship fights to go long, which made him even easier to underestimate and thus all the more dangerous.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2022
  2. Guerra

    Guerra Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Your whole essay could be summed up in whay Wilder himself said (paraphrasing): you need to be perfect for 12 rounds, he needs to be perfect for 2 seconds.
     
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  3. ShortRound

    ShortRound Active Member banned Full Member

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    It would be a gross oversimplification. I've never fully agreed with that maxim because it suggests that Wilder can't be KO'd himself. Most boxing fans don't understand the mechanics behind Wilder's strategy and this essay helps to demystify it.
     
  4. Oddone

    Oddone Bermane Stiverne's life coach. Full Member

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    So Wilder was grossly oversimplifying himself and you know better than he does?

    Got it.
     
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  5. ShortRound

    ShortRound Active Member banned Full Member

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    Wilder is dumb and delusional (an egomaniac) so it wouldn't be difficult but he isn't going to articulate an essay on his strategy to the public, which has been designed by his training team anyway.
     
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  6. 007 373 5963

    007 373 5963 Active Member Full Member

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    I do think he's the greatest one-dimensional heavyweight champion ever. But on the list of greatest heavyweight champions ever, he wouldn't even come close to being in the conversation. His nuclear right hand took him incredibly far, but this is due in no small part because the HW division has been so weak during his career. Put him in the 90s and he'd possibly crack the top 10, but he would've never had a belt.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2022
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  7. ShortRound

    ShortRound Active Member banned Full Member

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    "I do think he's the greatest one-dimensional heavyweight champion ever"

    Someone like Mike Tyson fits that description much better, who at 5'10/71' only had one way to fight. Wilder's shown the ability to overcome opponents on the back foot, the front foot and in-between. He's far more versatile than he's usually given credit for.

    "But on the list of greatest heavyweight champions ever"

    "Greatness" is subjective. If we're talking about actual ability then Wilder would rank very highly.

    "The HW division has been so weak..."

    This is a complete myth. HW's today have every advantage possible over heavyweights from 50 years ago, no sport has objectively declined over this time period. The fighters are bigger, the nationalities far broader, the number of styles greater, there are more fights/fighters to study etc.

    Some of the 90's (non-WBO) HW champs: Douglas, Moorer, McCall, 45/46 year old Foreman, Seldon, Bruno, Moorer

    The 90's was regarded as a cr*p era at the time, as is usually the case. 90's heavyweights never fought anyone with the style, physical dimensions, speed or power of Wilder, who has shown the willingness to die in the ring. He'd be a major threat to any of them.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2022
  8. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Well, he's really dumb, and his handlers convinced him that he is much, much better than he is by feeding him bums and medically unfit fighters. He has a strong propensity for violence, beating up Vegas hookers, internet trolls and Mexican burrito mascots, and talking about killing people when it is really not appropriate or desirable to any decent human being. Finally, he is at times delusional, although that might again be a function of his low intelligence and narcissistic personality disorder.

    I hope this helps you to understand him.
     
  9. Robney

    Robney ᴻᴼ ᴸᴼᴻᴳᴲᴿ ᴲ۷ᴵᴸ Full Member

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    It's another unmentioned advantage when you have the judges in your pocket. If you keep it relatively close you know the judges will bail you out if you can't land the big shot. Which in turn gives you more patience and confidence to land it.
     
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  10. Vegan Beast

    Vegan Beast Grandpappy Ortiz Full Member

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    Wasn't Mike kind of one dimensional also? He had one way of fighting. Way more talented than Wilder, but he always went for the KO.
     
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  11. Mitch87

    Mitch87 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Hard to judge considering Wilders incredibly very poor opposition he has beaten.

    Need to se Wilder fight one of two of the top guys that been protected from and avoided like the plague. Guys with actual quality such as AJ, Parker, Whyte etc, however that's unlikely to happen. expect Wilder to continue to fight very low level opposition untill Haymon wants to cash in him and makes him a lamb to slaughter against Sanchez or Ruiz.
     
  12. Boxing2019

    Boxing2019 If you want peace, prepare war. banned Full Member

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    Wilder is a delusional taxi driver or journeyman (if you prefer) with a fist powerful like Robocop's one.

    This content is protected
     
  13. Brighton bomber

    Brighton bomber Loyal Member Full Member

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    Wilder is not a complex or nuanced fighter. You're over thinking things.

    He gets out boxed sometimes and like any fighter who can't win a fight on points against a specific opponent resorts to looking for the KO. Sure his approach is slightly different as he himself is vulnerable and not suited to pressuring like most punchers so he has to simply sit back, avoid getting KO'ed himself and wait and hope his opponents tire enough that he can catch them with a big shot.

    If Wilder had the skills to out box or the smarts to adapt and out think an opponent who is out boxing him, he would, but he can't so he's resorts to his default sit back and wait for the KO approach. He frames it as a strategy to disguise the fact he's so inept in other areas but he's not fooling anyone with a brain.
     
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  14. Guerra

    Guerra Well-Known Member Full Member

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    To Wilders credit he is very good at landing that right hand.
    We laugh at him for the windmill punches and limitied skills but he is an atg overachiever in boxing.
    Ko'ing buritto mascottes and internet trolls as some circus side show is his level in a way that would warrant a butterbean type status ot heavyweight randall bailey at best.
    But somehow, won an olympic medal, a heavyweight championship title, ko'd everyone very nearly ko'd Fury and became a multi millionaire in the proces.
    Amazing overachiever in life
     
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  15. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Wilder's greatest ability is the fear of his right hand, his footwork is bad, his balance is subject to be awful at any moment and he often flails with his punches. Wilder does have only one dimension, he has to land a big punch and ko the other man. And if a guy gets up and fights like Fury, Wilder is not a good finisher either. He relies totally on one shot power.. On Tyson I think your confusing style with dimensions, Tyson and a guy like Frazier had come forward styles to destroy the opponent. They both had far better skills than Wilder, better head movement, better footwork to set up their punches, and better defense. Also much better chins. Historically I doubt Wilder would be ranked inside the top 30 of all time heavyweight rankings though there'd be a few fighters he might get.
    P.S.
    Concerning the 90's heavyweights Douglas, McCall, Holyfield, Foreman, Moorer, Bruno, ,,Tua? he's losing more than once.
     
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