Unpopular Opinion: Liston beats everyone that came before him

He was more than half a decade past his best. Martin was well inside the top 10 and showed Liston's level. Liston fought pretty well for a while but went kaput. Martin could punch and Liston evidently struggled to take a big punch at that point.

 

Liston was a victim of how good and heavy his jab was.

I feel like he often knocked people out of range to follow up and despite his solid balance and agility, he didn't have the foot speed to cover the distance to follow up before they recovered often enough.

Interestingly, Liston is one of the few HWs who punch well in all ranges - the hooks that he cleaned Patterson's clock with carried tremendous power and were short.

Only faster handed, equal/similar power punchers like Tyson and Louis can genuinely stand in front of him and outshoot him in a gun fight - everyone else has to employ cautionary tactics to hit and not be hit otherwise, a bit like Big George, Sonny carries that numb you on the spot kinda power.

 

I think he loses to Joe Louis and both Jersey Joe and Ezzard Charles have good chances of beating him.

 

I would pick Louis to beat Liston to be honest.

 

With his level of competition it was hard to tell where he was. The fact Martin was forced to retire after the Liston fight with a detached retina does not help with that clarity. But based on his results he was a top fighter. He knocked out Wepner in his last fight.

Except Ali the good HWs at this time did pretty terrible against the 70s generation and it was not because of age. You had Ali, Frazier, Quarry and Ellis and then Wepner was probably the 5th best. Top 10ers around this time include Bonavena, Manuel Ramos, Jose Luis Garcia, Chinvalo, Al Jones, Mac Foster, Henry Cooper, Peralta. Its not that incredible a reach to think Liston and maybe Leotis beat everyone except Ali and Frazier in 1969. Everyone except Ali, Frazier and Ellis? Leotis Martin never got a chance to prove it but its not outlandish. People crow about how Amos Lincoln, Henry Clark and Zech aren't great opponents but besides the champions in Ali, Frazier and Ellis what was everyone else doing that made Listons streak so irelevant?


However good Liston was I think he proved he wasn't past it. He was doing as well as you would expect a top HW to do. No one except Archie Moore is truly their best at 39 that doesn't mean they aren't the best or elite or whatever. In a few weeks we'll have a 39 year champ. Usyks clearly not in his prime but hes good enough where he can defend his belt and people aren't going to write him off cause hes old.

 

Very very possible. I'd pick Louis over him though

 

Liston V Louis. What a fight that would have been!!!

 

Getting back to the original point, it was asked if Liston would beat everyone before him. It's obviously the best version of Liston, Liston at his best etc. My point is the Martin version of Liston has no place in the conversation, unless one thinks this is the greatest version of Liston. I don't personally, for obvious reasons.

 

Understandable.

 

It’s not impossible. Liston would certainly have a chance at beating anyone who came before him and likely have beaten a good number of guys who came after him. I would cheer for Joe Louis and hope that he could beat Liston ( and he might have ) but nothing would be a given .

 

Joe Louis, OK that is a contest.

Journeyman Joe Walcott? The guy who was beaten every third time he stepped through the ropes? Sonny can't rank with Johnny Allen and Roy Lazer?

And Ezz, who though greater than great at lightheavy, was a desperate haymaker flinging undersized heavy?

Prime Liston was the closest thing we saw to a post-modern heavy back in the 60's, a real man-sized athlete with skills and a mean streak.