Usyk Against Norton..A close run thing?

Norton can win this

 

Fair enough I respect your views but I've always thought Norton matches up quite well with Usyk.

Usyk has underrated power but not on the level of Shavers, Foreman, so I think if Norton can withstand Ali, Holmes, best punches he can last the distance with Usyk.

I think the issue is that Usyk is so much better than everyone else now and the bigger Heavyweights haven't got the cardio levels to last with Usyk in 2nd half of the fight.

So I think the notable great Heavyweights between 210-220 would be more challenging opponents because they have the skills and more importantly they're more designed to go deep into fights at a good pace.

Would I favour Usyk ? Probably yeah but Norton I think is a tough opponent for Usyk.

Norton fought a prime Holmes and fought a very good version of Ali in their 2nd fight and was highly competitive with both of them so I think that is relevant.

 

Norton is glorified at the expense of his victory over Ali, but look at what fighters Norton lost against, you insult Usyk by comparing him to Norton...

 

Again you've said this in multiple threads and I keep telling you styles make fights.

Norton had issues vs big punching KO artists but Usyk is not that.

Norton had great performances vs 2 top 5 ATG Heavyweights in Holmes, Ali, and also beat Young who was fresh off outpointing Foreman.

Yes Norton lost to fighters far lesser than Usyk but again he's also had performances against Heavyweights more highly rated than Usyk in all time Heavyweight lists.

Styles make fights Norton didn't do well against KO artist but thrived against boxer types which is what Usyk is.

 

What is a boxing type and how is Usyk a boxing type?

 

Boxer/mover who uses feints/angles.

A high class boxer type and a very challenging style but I think Norton could have a competitive fight over the distance with Usyk.

I'd pick Usyk by decision but it would be competitive IMO.

 

Do you think Usyk fights the same as Ali and Holmes?

 

The Crab is always a fun thought experiment to send in against a slick pure boxer type who isn't a big puncher. I think he'd give Usyk a real rough night. No idea what the outcome would be though.

 

No different types of boxers.

Ali is more of athletically gifted boxer who relies on his physical gifts and natural talent and speed rather than technical ability kind of like RJJ.

Holmes is a better technical boxer than Ali he does more things the correct way and has a better jab. But he doesn't quite have the speed or footwork of a prime Ali.

Usyk has better feints and uses angles better I would say but he doesn't quite have the ramrod jab of Holmes or the speed of Ali but he's still no slouch in either department.

If I was to do a rating....

Speed = Ali

Jab = Holmes

Footwork = Different types of footwork between Ali, Usyk, you can't really compare. Ali was lighter on his feet and could bounce around better than any Heavyweight in history. But Usyk is a master at using angles making him hard to pin down I'd say they're pretty close in different ways.

Chin = I think all 3 are pretty great but I'd maybe put Ali and Usyk slightly above Holmes.

Heart = All 3 are equal IMO.

Boxing IQ = Maybe Usyk here because he's had so much Amateur experience and I think he's better at fighting on the front foot.

Power = I think this is debatable Ali has some impressive stoppages over durable Heavyweight.

Holmes had 15 stoppages in 20 world title fights.

Usyk has hurt bigger men but lacks the stoppages.

I think all 3 have underrated power and can hurt you if they sit down on their punches.

Sorry for rambling on a bit but yeah that's how I see it.

 

Good good do you those things and his southpaw stance would give Norton more trouble then the tools Ali and Holmes had?

 

Usyk may be able to find more holes on Norton's cross arm defence yeah because of the angles and the southpaw stance.

It's always the issue because until the last 20 years or so there wasn't alot of notable southpaw Heavyweights and now there seems to be an abundance of them.

So it's always going to be a question which former Heavyweight great can adapt the southpaw style and who can't.

Louis for example apparently got schooled in sparring by a southpaw Light Heavyweight and vowed to never fight a southpaw.

Holmes lost to a southpaw in his amateur days but I'm giving Holmes a pass for that because I think he improved leaps and bounds from his amateur days.

Even Lewis who I rate highly there's a bit of a question mark on how he would deal with a southpaw since we didn't get to see him fight Moorer, Sanders, or Byrd.

 

One thing I'd point out -- pre-exile Ali was also pre-hand problems Ali. That Ali was bordering on a legit banger. He wasn't Sonny Liston, but if you look at opponent reactions and his stoppages, it was clear he hit hard. 7/10 minimum, and he wasn't even trying to sit down on punches. At no point have Usyk or Holmes consistently had opponents who reacted the same way.

Holmes had plenty of stoppages, but I credit a lot of those to his uncommonly stiff jab. Earnie Shavers wrote about this in his autobiography, actually. He said, sure, Ali peppers you with the jab but it doesn't really hurt, but when Holmes landed jabs they felt more like right hands. I think if he was having jabbing success, it broke down opponents so that he could get out of there with a good right or two.

 

That's my main thoughts on this matchup and why I think he'd do better then Holmes and Ali pretty much.

And yeah definitely think lot of older fighters would struggle against a good southpaw even today many fighters struggle despite being able to train for it. Just hard to adjust when you're intuitively used to fighting one way to then have to fight totally differently. Throws people off and would probably throw people who have even less experience with it even more off.

 

Are there any bottom shelf greats?