usyk doesnt look so amazing now after watching joshuas last 2 fights ...

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Thunderstorm, Aug 12, 2023.


  1. MidniteProwler

    MidniteProwler Fab 4. Mayor of Aussie Boxing Full Member

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    Usyk out boxed AJ twice which is very impressive. For all AJ's flaws he has decent boxing skills and his cautious approach makes him more difficult to tag cleanly but Usyk had no problem finding him. Fury is the only other heavyweight who could out box AJ if he chooses to but I think he would got for the knockout. Wilder would not out box AJ he would likely knock him out but until he does he would likely be behind on the scorecards.
     
  2. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    How cute, more playing dumb and goalpost shifting. I love how everyone seems to be trotting out the, but... but... but... these guys are KO artists and that guy isn't argument now, as some determinative factor in regards to P4P rankings. No one seemed to have an issue with slick featherfists being P4P kings until now. As far as the Calzaghe comparison, is that supposed to be some subtle insult? You're comparing him to the Super Middleweight GOAT and one of the best fighters this sport has produced in the last 3 decades.
     
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  3. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    No doubt, clearly he wasn't completely mentally shot after that, but it was a dink in his armor, and it shattered his aura of invincibility to a degree both with his fans and to himself. Even though he showed tremendous grit during that match, the after effects haunted him through several of his performances that followed. He was incredibly risk averse against Takam, Povetkin and especially Parker. The seek & destroy AJ had become a thing of the past. Then he thought he nothing to fear against Ruiz, was starting to get back to the old AJ, and paid for it dearly. Then the skittish performance in the rematch exorcised that demon to a degree, and the post-Wlad AJ was back for the Pulev match. He needed to restore his confidence after both, and did to a degree.

    But after what happened with Usyk, that's clearly done the most long term emotional damage. To almost get KO'd and come back from it and win, then to get KO'd and come back from that to school him in the rematch. That leaves minor scars that have healed. But to be at your absolute best and lose via one sided domination, then to train your ass off for the rematch, and perhaps the best version of AJ we've ever seen shows up, and he still loses. That's emasculating to a degree. Because there was no redemption arch this time around, which has been incredibly trying for him to come to terms with. To know there's someone out there that's just better than you, that you cannot beat, when you're in a sport where you need a bit of an ego and all of the confidence that comes with it. To be stripped of that can be psychologically devastating.
     
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  4. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    What? Is this supposed to some sort of gotcha? No ****, I was this forum's most vocal AJ critic for almost a decade, this is news to almost no one. But while I'm in no way a big fan of his as a man, I think he's an insecure spiraling nutcase. At the very least, when I detach myself from something I'm emotionally invested in, and offer up a sober assessment. I'm rarely off the mark. So when I started seeing clowns on this site proclaiming that every bum that comes down the pike will take AJ out, even someone like Franklin. I'd had enough and started defending him to a degree. Because he's now gone from the most overrated to the most underrated on this site. Here was my initial change of heart post.
    https://www.boxingforum24.com/threa...s-river-wilson-bent-rbr.701555/#post-22240808
     
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  5. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    You come at me with this pisspoor attempt at implying racism again, and I'll ban your ass for it. Because it's both inaccurate as well as trolling, off topic and potentially thread derailing.

    As far as my assessment, it's absolutely true. Here's why.... Are you with a straight face going to insist that post-Wlad, AJ was the same fighter against Takam, Parker and Povetkin? Yes, clearly he showed a lot of moxie and guts to get up from that knockdown against Wlad, and rallied in impressive fashion. But the long term after effects clearly left him questioning his whiskers to a degree, which is why we saw a far more circumspect, tentative, borderline timid and risk averse version of AJ against the aforementioned fighters. Finally he was getting his confidence back after the win over Povetkin, a little too much, before Ruiz dented again. Clearly all three men deserve a degree of credit for stripping AJ of his confidence and destroying the false perception that he's this unstoppable Tyson like killing machine. But with Wlad he survived and won, then with Ruiz he lost and then avenged that loss. Demons exorcised. But with Usyk, there was no such closure. So he has to live with both of those losses, and clearly neither are sitting very well with him.
     
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  6. Philly161

    Philly161 "Fundamentals are the crutch of the talentless" banned Full Member

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    This is all just a narrative in your head you made up after the fact. The Parker fight was a mess the ref was inexperienced and he wasn't letting them fight inside, but it wasn't for lack of trying with AJ. Takam gave a good account of himself and honestly the stoppage was maybe a little early and possibly due to some hype around AJ but again not his fault and he certainly wasn't timid in that fight. AJ's confidence in the 2 years after the Wlad fight was an all time high. Nobody was calling him tentative during that period. He clearly had no problem wading in and stopping Pov after Povetkin rocked him. That all started with the Ruiz rematch.
     
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  7. Decker

    Decker Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Well put. From a mythological perspective, AJ is not a Phoenix.
     
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  8. Decker

    Decker Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I'm seeing many posters who've joined relatively recently, say in 2020s (ofc there are exceptions), state that none or nearly none of top ten HWs are "any good". Adjectives like fraud, fake, etc. are applied to even top 5 HWs. Some veteran members are not immune to such posts.

    It's gotten to a ridiculous level. Image if there the internet & sites like this existed in the 1970s. I've always thought the so called "golden era" of HWs was overrated. It's a function of nostalgia and other, lessor impulses. However if the internet existed then as it does now, the 1970s HWs would NOT be as fondly remembered. Tons of negative comments - reasonable & not reasonable - would've been made about Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Norton, Quarry, Shavers, Lyle, etc. etc. All of them ! For the old timers here, go back to that era, apply the same attitudes & standards to the 70s HWs as they are to recent to current HWs. I find it a fun mental exercise. Most people tend to focus on criticizing and being negative. Especially to those that are more successful than them. It "empowers" many little people. You see that attitude everywhere, magnified by social media & the internet in general.

    The only pro for the 70s was that they fought more often, but that was true of all weight classes. A major pro for recent to current HWs is that they are much bigger, stronger. My point is not to debate olden HWs to the recent ones. I just think if we had this "everybody can give their opinion" anonymously era, whether well thought out or just trolling or plain stupid, earlier eras fighters would have gotten the same treatment.
     
  9. steviebruno

    steviebruno ESB NYC Delegate banned Full Member

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    This wasn't a P4P discussion and the Calzaghe reference wasn't meant to be a knock, but a stylistic comparison. I honestly don't know what the hell you're so upset about.

    You want to argue that being 1-2'd to a points decision by a cruiserweight mentally ruined Joshua? Have at it. I think that you are probably at least a little mentally ill, but you are entitled to your opinion.
     
  10. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    This is all AJ needed to do according to the so called experts :lol::facepalm:

    He couldn't do to Usyk what he did to all those bigger slower behemoths because Usyk wasn't there to be hit and he punished him everytime he tried to do so



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    ''And Joshua has admitted he cannot enter the rematch using an overly-aggressive approach otherwise he will come unstuck for a second time. “We might have to box, that’s what he (Garcia) said," Joshua revealed during an interview with JD in a teaser of their upcoming ‘Road to Redemption’ video. “It depends what Usyk brings as well. “It’s like trying to swat a fly. You know, because I’m the bigger man, I’m gonna’ go in there and just swat this fly and it is going to die.

    "But you know how difficult it is to swat a fly because it moves around a lot and how energy-draining that is. I can’t just now come in and start boxing like Mike Tyson - it’s just not me - I have got to be the best me.''

    Top American does this and the same clowns call it artwork and genius

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  11. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Fact is he looked much better against Usyk, Pulev and for Fat Andy 2 than he did against Franklin and Helenius all of whom are much better than the later two. No one made him have an epic nervous breakdown in the ring and bawl his eyes out at the post-fight presser. Usyk did that to him. That;s how badly those losses affected him mentally. Usyk took his soul and destroyed his confidence.
     
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  12. DavHQ

    DavHQ Member banned Full Member

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    he 12-0 Ruiz in rematch .
     
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  13. Bubba

    Bubba Boxing’s not as popular as it used to be, right? Full Member

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    Joshua was not the same fighter after the Klitschko and first Ruiz fight.
     
  14. Philly161

    Philly161 "Fundamentals are the crutch of the talentless" banned Full Member

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    Yes I know. The narrative of is detractors, though, was that he fought too defensively and was scared. I do think he was never as confident after the first Ruiz fight. But that makes sense, because he took his first loss and was stopped as well in a huge upset. He also tried to trade with Ruiz a few times in the second fight and that was when Ruiz had what little success he had in that fight, so had he done it and gotten knocked out again, I doubt the posters on here would be giving him a better rating.

    What I was arguing about was a claim that AJ actually lost his confidence when he knocked out the best fighter of the previous era and was viewed by the majority as the best active heavyweight. I disagree with that claim.

    The fact is Wlad and Lennox had knockout upset losses like AJ's loss to Ruiz in their career. And afterwards they both adopted less aggressive styles.
     
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  15. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Lol !