Usyk In The Early 1900's?

And Usyk would show Johnson a tall, fast, mobile, 200+ SOUTHPAW, with an excellent gas-tank... who would keep a long jab in his face all night. I wonder how many of that type Johnson faced during his career?

 

Hard to say without film.

 

And how the hell does he stop Johnson getting in close?

Relying on jabbing and moving can only work, if he can clinch in close then reset,but instead of reseting, he'd start taking a beatdown. It's just not hard to get in close if you don't mind clinching.

Johnson might not have fought someone like Usyk, but he's fought a hell of a lot closer to it, than Usyk has someone like Johnson.

 

Terrible, terrible analogy. A Ferrari s better than a Stanley steamer as a result of steady, cumulative technological advances. There are no comparable advances that are anywhere near as relevant to the performance of athletes -unless you count PED's.
(Once again, there is no such thing as scientific training or nutrition in this context, and anyone who says otherwise immediately and irrefragably adopts the burden to start citing papers.)

It does seem plausible on the face of it that basketball has a much deeper talent pool now than in the sixties, as it didn't really become a widely popular sport (quite unlike boxing) till well after the second world war. (How many basketball courts, or even basketball hoops, do you supposed existed in 1940?)

 

Define "evolved".

 

When I watch some of the old fights, like Nelson vs Wolgast or Ketchel vs Papke, I see plenty of clinching, with lots of pushing and showing. Not really my "thing", but I realize, this was the norm back then - and they were at least trying their best to get some sort of infighting going (if they could manage to get an arm free!).

But where is Johnson's inside game? Against Burns he just grabs his smaller opponent's upper arms, close to the armpit, and keeps him in a stronghold... from which Burns is unable to break free, and where he can't do a thing. Johnson himself isn't doing anything either. He's just standing there, pushing his much smaller and lighter opponent around, tiring him out.

Same thing in the Flynn fight. Flynn desperately tries to get his arms free in the clinches, so he can work Johnson's body - but again he's completely shut down, and not allowed to do anything. On a rare occasion Johnson lets go an uppercut on the inside - but most of the time he's content to just tie up his frustrated opponent, while at the same time flashing his customary big smile to the ringsiders.

To be honest, I see Johnson more as a great spoiler, than a great infighter!

As I've already said earlier in this thread, because of Johnson's rather special style, I can't confidently pick a winner here. Both certainly represent something the other hasn't been up against before, so what will happen, is anybody's guess.

But to think it's a foregone conclusion, that Johnson will just go into a clinch, where he will manhandle Usyk and start the beatdown - with his big and strong opponent unable to do a thing about it... well, I'm sorry, but that's an extremely one-sided way of looking at things!

 

That's not what I'm seeing at all. At the time stamp here I see tentative, shrewd feinting followed by a jab thrown so seemingly fast that I have to wonder if the film is playing at the correct speed. Also, he's pretty clearly toying with Ketchel.

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He could toy with and throw more punches against a middleweight.

Usyk would toy with Johnson. Johnson would have less success than Venter did.

 

if that video is a highlight video of Johnson and Ketchell, it just shows there was a lack of entertainment in those days. A crowd that big watching two unskilled "boxers" walking around with their hands down, swatting at each other, both with their chins up...Neither Johnson nor Ketchell are trained enough for basic sparring in a modern gym yet they are fighting a championship fight in front of a big crowd. Another two that I wouldn't watch if they were fighting in front of my house.

It wouldn't take a world class fighter to beat either Johnson or Ketchell, there are 15-16 year old amateurs who would easily beat them. Johnson does look like a big, strong guy with potential if he was trained.

 

Agreed. Awful analogy. Yet, comparing boxing to accelerated advances in technology remains to be a popular trope in these discussions.

As do comparisons with highly abstract sports that are hardly older than 100 years.

 

Unsalvagably idiotic, and since there is nothing resembling an argument to address, dismissed, with a wave of the hand.

 

Was there an argument you wanted to make, or are you just content with naked assertion?

 

I'll grant that you make one good point -although entirely inadvertently. I agree that this old style of boxing is less interesting to watch, which is very likely why nowhere near that degree of upright grappling and holding and hitting is allowed any longer.

 

Planet Earth is a hallmark documentary series that captures the beauty of Earth and it’s wildlife. I’m sure most people here are familiar with it.

The stunning footage is captivating. The colorful imagery touches your soul, and gives you a sense of awe, beauty, and wonder. People of all ages gather around and “ooh” and “ahh” at things as simple as plants growing in a timelapse.

The same exact subject matter shot with a 1910 camera would appear strange, dreary, awkward, and bland. It would do little to nothing to excite the soul and the senses.

Yet, it’s the same exact subject matter.