Usyk: late to HW but why?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by pugilista, Apr 25, 2024.


  1. TFP

    TFP Active Member Full Member

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    Lots of reasons but in short:

    (a) Cruiser is far and away his best/most natural weight, as it is for almost anyone who walks around at much less than 230.

    (b) After becoming undisputed CW champ he made a single defence 112 days later and immediately relinquished his belts, announcing his intention to move up to HW.
     
  2. Thunderstorm

    Thunderstorm Active Member Full Member

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  3. senpai

    senpai Boxing Addict Full Member

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    and what have I said that is against Usyk in that post ? Sometimes you don't even know how to attack me, when I talk about Usyk(your hero after he beat AJ)

    You forgot that I was the one who was saying that Usyk will beat AJ and everybody was just laughting here ? You remember "too big, too strong" post all over this forum ?
     
  4. Heisenberg

    Heisenberg @paulmillsfitness Full Member

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    I don’t think one of those names actually adds anything to his CV. Like another poster said, injuries, a global pandemic, an AJ rematch clause, the war and then being jerked around by Fury has cost him a few more fights maybe. But a long decorated amateur career and arguably earning the no1 ATG at cruiserweight accolade just adds to his legacy rather than simply campaigning at heavyweight.
     
  5. steviebruno

    steviebruno ESB NYC Delegate banned Full Member

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    His glass body is more susceptible to blows from heavyweights. He may have desired to win the titles, but he has no interest in actually defending them.
     
  6. pugilista

    pugilista Member banned Full Member

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    It was certainly strange how you talked about Usyk's inactivity when it is pretty well-known he wanted to fight more but couldn't. If you genuinely think this "inactivity" is down to him, ask yourself this: why would he age himself deliberately, what would he gain by that? Usyk has always been targeting undisputed so I'm not sure what people who suggest he is "inactive" on purpose and not because of factors outside of his control think he is trying to achieve here by deliberately fighting only once per year.
     
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  7. fencik45

    fencik45 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    every pro and amatuer athlete of note in the world is juiced to the gills. been that way since the mid to late seventies.
     
  8. pugilista

    pugilista Member banned Full Member

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    Where does this idea come from? Usyk, as far as I know, was never even hurt as a professional fighter by a legit body shot, ever. He took a knee against Beterbiev what, fifteen years ago? Show me anyone in boxing history who takes a clean body punch from Beterbiev and doesn't go down. But even then, he was up immediately. Apart from a clear bladder punch delivered by Dubois who kept landing low blows all through the fight, when or where was any vulnerability to body punches shown by Usyk? As far as I can remember, he was never even in trouble or tried to clinch his way out of tricky situations caused by body punches. So I'm really not sure where this 'glass body' thing stems from.

    Fury was put to the canvas by light-punching former CWs like Pajkic and Cunningham with single shots. He was also put to the canvas by a boxing debutant who just grazed his head with quite sloppy punching technique. So if Usyk has a glass belly, Fury's chin is a soap bubble.
     
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  9. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    This notion that Usyk has a glass body is quite comical too. He's fought many of the biggest punchers in the sport, more than any other current champ, and many of them, including his fellow P4P top 10 brothers and fellow top 5 even ones, have barely fought any at all, especially ones their own size, let alone ones bigger or way bigger, and he's never been dropped as a pro and the only time he has touched the canvas in the pros was when the much bigger murderous punching Dubois cracked him with an enormous low blow.

    Gassiev is not only one of the top 10 hardest punchers in the sport he's one of the most vicious body punchers. He hits ridiculously hard upstairs and down

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    AJ is one of the hardest punchers in the sport and he hits ridiculously hard. He still sports a KO 89%. Only three of his opponents have lasted the distance against him and only four have not been floored by him and one of those was stopped in the fifth before AJ had a chance to do so. AJ had 24 rounds to try and floor Usyk once but he couldn't despite being way bigger, heavier, stronger, longer and more powerful than him

    Dubois is one of the hardest punchers in the HW division and he sports a KO 95% and only one of his victims has lasted the distance against him

    Beterbiev, who Usyk fought x 3 in the amateurs, again is one of the top 3 hardest punchers in the sport and the only current champ who sports a KO 100%

    Briedis is another one of the hardest punchers in the sport very explosive and with both hands

    This is what he did to a way bigger durable 250lb HW. None of the HWs Diamomd Boy has fought could do that to him, including Vitali and Povetkin. Povetkin KO'd him but he took him out with vicious combinations all of which landed flush and Diamond Boy wasn't out

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    Majidov is another much bigger SHW with murderous power

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    Then we have the likes of Glowacki, Bellew, a 40lb heavier Chisora, Huck, Hunter etc. all of whom KO artists or big punchers to varying degrees

    Very few fighters could run the gauntlet of murderous punchers, KO artists and big punchers Usyk has an not be knocked out multiple times.

    Does Floyd have a glass chin because he was dropped by Zab, badly hurt and out on his feet against a PED free Shane, badly hurt and wobbled by Chop Chop, and hurt by Manny and Maidana.

    Floyd got bashed up in the gym by an Irish amateur named Robert Gorman for goodness sake. Gorman injured Floyd's rib with a body shot and Floyd had to postpone one of his fights and refused to ever spar him again
     
  10. vast

    vast Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He’s a natural CW who wanted to win the Ali Trophy and become undisputed which he did. There was absolutely nothing wrong with staying at CW and beating a number of excellent fighters. He then beat Bellew and rationally adjusted his weight to HW. He openly lobbied for a fight with AJ off the bat but had to fight twice to position himself as an opponent. He then dominated AJ twice and had the delays as noted above by other posters. Of course the biggest delay has been the blatant reluctance of Fury to fight him. So no, I don’t think he really could have done it any different. All that matters now is May 18th and his opportunity to get all the belts. I’ll be rooting for one of the, if not the, best boxer of his generation. Just a tremendous career and a great personality.
     
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  11. pugilista

    pugilista Member banned Full Member

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    So far, I still haven't seen any convincing explanations to my initial question. Usyk didn't just start out as a career CW who gradually grew into the size of a HW so he decided to step up. He was already a fully fledged HW at 212-213 when he fought in WSB, slapping around the likes of Joyce, Fa, Modugno, etc. So if you can do that, if you are already moving and looking great at 212, if you can dominate big guys like that, if you can slap around Wlad at that weight... Why go down under 200 again, spend six years in a weight division that lacks the money and prestige of the marquee division?

    All this "natural CW" talk is baffling because Usyk already showed what he can do at 210+ way back in 2013. All the explanations offered in this thread would only make sense if we had never seen Usyk as a HW prior to 2019. But we did, and he was spectacular. And we always knew how he dominated Wlad in sparring. So why go back down to CW weight from that point, why spend six years and put mileage on the clock in a division with less money and reputation? It makes no sense to me when everyone saw and knew already as early as 2013 that Usyk would be fantastic in the HW division.

    To give you an example, after what we saw from him in 2013, saying that he is a natural CW and that he needed to gradually get to the point—physically, mentally, or otherwise—to compete with the heavies is like saying this: After college, I completed a three-month trial period for a $100k job. I was amazing; everyone was impressed by what I could do. So, when it came to signing the contract, I was offered a permanent position in that role, but I asked for a junior position worth $50k per year instead because I felt that was my 'natural weight class.' I spent six years there just to be sure I was ready to step up, then I signed a contract for that senior position paying $100k per year—the very same position everyone knew I could do spectacularly right from the moment I was fresh out of college, as I had already proven it during my apprenticeship.
     
  12. hobby rider

    hobby rider Well-Known Member Full Member

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    He’s a fury phallus hopper. Best off ignoring him.
     
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  13. Absolutely!

    Absolutely! Fabulous, darling! Full Member

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    I have a few theories. Maybe Usyk felt he needed to work his way into the pros, and it was safer to do that at cruiserweight against men of his own size before moving onto the heavyweights. Fighting heavyweights in the World Series of Boxing is like a halfway house between the amateurs and the pros, and maybe Usyk wanted the experience of pacing himself for ten and twelve round fights which would have been a new experience for him. The cruiserweights at that time was also stacked with great fighters so it's not exactly like he wasted his time there if he wanted to hone his skills and stuff. It's also easier to make big fights against the best men in that division because there are literally no divas, and no one gives a crap about protecting their 0. And if you're a champ at that weight division it fast tracks you to title fights once you move up, so maybe he thought it was a smoother ride to getting the really big fights at heavyweight rather than being jerked around at heavy from the start and getting ducked like as happened with Fury. I dunno. I'm just thinking out loud here. I think he made the right decision. I can see him having problems if he just jumped straight into the heavyweight division, and probably getting more wear and tear from having big skilless lugs leaning all over him and being worn out or aged out before he can work his way into a title fight. I think I make a lot of good points. What do you say?
     
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  14. Scar

    Scar VIP Member Full Member

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    He moved up at the right time, that's why he has been extremely successful.
     
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  15. Absolutely!

    Absolutely! Fabulous, darling! Full Member

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    To expand on your example. Maybe it's closer to this: I pass my degree with flying colours and get an apprenticeship for a 100k high flying job which everyone I work with tell me I'm amazing at and the job is mine, but I look at the mental stress that being in the job would take and that it would burn me out if I jumped right in, so I take a lower paid job that affords me better work life balance and builds up my reserves of experience so that when it comes time to move up to that 100k job I'm much better prepared and know what pitfalls to avoid. Then I look at my colleagues who joined up with the company straight after college and I see how worn out and cynical they are, and I know I made the right choice.