Usyk vs Ken Norton

He wasn't called the "Beautiful Body" for nothing.

As far as I know Norton relied on calisthenics and stuff like Charles Atlas's Dynamic tension. Very little weightlifting if any at all.

 

Norton would have had vastly more success than Foreman in bodybuilding, whilst Foreman would be the better power lifter of the two.

 

His autobiography is pretty good. And very honest. Check it out.

 

Hard to believe he didn't weight lifting, but then genetics can be amazing

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Yeah, I wouldn’t hold Ken to never having done any weights at all during his career or pre boxing when he was a multi applied athlete - for the purposes and intents of the question I would interpret it to mean not having done any serious or truly dedicated weight training.

But sure, Ken’s build was more about genetics and natural definition - he didn’t have that tell tale muscle volume of someone who worked with weights regularly - if he did work with weights, he certainly missed leg day - his pins looked like pipe cleaners relative to his upper body.

Ali on the other hand had the most well developed legs in the business - and Joe Louis was solid in the same regard which likely lent a lot to his optimally leveraged power.

Both Shavers and Chuvalo are two older school boxers who have been reasonably confirmed to have lifted during their careers. Bugner also lifted prior to his boxing career.

Cleve Williams might take the cake in terms of natural build - again, Cleve didn’t necessarily carry the volume (vs Ali his arms were listed as 15 1/2”) so respectable but not huge. My arms measure that but they certainly don’t look as cut and defined as Williams’.

 

Honestly NO WAY - if they were on roids (which is extremely likely) they weren’t that impressive and look (especially Foreman) natural. IBF pro bodybuilding genetics are WAY beyond guys like GF and KN, Coleman was bigger / as big as both as a kid before gear so was Lee Priest. Checkout Sandow he was a natty with very little equipment 185lbs-190lbs or something like that and 5ft8 BUT in terms of muscle he made Foreman look like a chubby part timer. Those guys were elite boxers and were built for it… but powerlifting and bodybuilding requires its own combination of sport “genes” and a good spread of them for each one… I have and had “elite” pulling strength for my size in some lifts… but you’ve gotta be elite across multiple joints, motor patterns and shape etc… If your back is 1% what’s the chances of your chest being 1%? Etc.

 

Any football fans remember Herschel Walker? How ripped he was? He didn't lift weights. He just did 2,000 pushups a day.

 

He was very athletic by 60s standards. That said, it doesn't surprise me that much that he attained the level of performance in high school that he did; I don't know that excelling at Illinois high school track & field in 1960 would make him an elite track & field guy by the standards of 2025. Or even necessarily a step above some of the other boxers of the time (who didn't all do track & field, but were definitely athletic.) Shavers and Weaver both had a faster 100 yard dash than Norton by the time they were all professional boxers, and Bugner had a comparable push press. Conteh seemed roughly comparable to Norton in "athleticism" overall, with a slower 100 yard time, faster half mile time, and equal push press. Norton was probably more athletic than the average elite heavyweight in the 70s; dunno that he was a quantum leap beyond them, though.

By the early 90s, little ex-cruiserweight Holyfield could PED himself up to Norton's levels of athletic ability.

 

Norton freeks everyone out and wins a somewhat disputed split decision.

Usyk wins 2 out of 3.

 

I am amazed at people picking Usyk to stop Norton when Ali couldn't stop him in 3 fights.

Ali stopped Foreman, Liston and Bonavena - three men that had never been stopped before.

Usyk is a magnificent fighter but even at cruiserweight, he did not stop anyone especially durable.

I don't see Usyk stopping Norton when Muhammad couldn't. Very unlikely. The likes of Foreman, Cooney and Shavers are much bigger hitters than Usyk.

 

I voted for Usyk by decision