Usyk Would be favoured on points against any heavyweight before 1970 ?

Yes, but we can't talk about the fighters that might have been.

 

Liston in the early 60's very much did exist. And it's of course he that should be used for a hypothetical.

 

But not a Liston that had a more extensive amateur career.

 

Not sure what you're on about. The thread asks if anyone pre 70 beats Usyk. You must know that those who say Liston means prime, not green, Liston, right?

EDIT: I see now that your first post I answered was an answer to someone I have on ignore. So I missed the context.

 

Ali 1967 ?

 

You said, In his pro career, no. But Liston didn't much of an amateur career in comparison and had a steep learning curve as a pro, so they aren't remotely comparable. Usyk had hundreds of amateur bouts, two Olympics and WSB before turning pro..."

That doesn't matter. We judge the fighters are they are, not as how they might have been. And it works both ways. Usyk having 350 amateur fights has given him his brilliance, and led to the degradation of his body that keeps him averaging one fight a year.

A fighters pathway is just built into who they are.

 

Not sure what we're discussing here, but in terms of greatness I mostly look at what a fighter did around his prime. I'm not too fussed what he did when green or well past it.

If we're talking fantasy H2H... well, I almost never do anymore because of the fantasy element, but in that case I look at fighters at their best.

But you seem to have said this in a discussion with someone on my ignore, who claimed that Usyk would have the same early losses if he had faced them at the same stage in his career. I missed that context. If we're just talking pro career, no I don't think Usyk in the actual pro career he's had ever would lose to Marshall. However much I dislike these hypotheticals, I just can't see that. But, as I said, I didn't see that you answered someone who claimed that he would.

 

What's wrong with love ins

 

Gets mopped by Mr. Tunney

 

NO he wouldn't...

 

Did you? When did you see it?

 

Ali, Frazier, and Liston should be favored. Louis has a good shot.

 

67 Ali beats him every time. I'd also make Liston a small favorite, his pacing is excellent and he is far more skilled than any guy with his power has a right to be. Joe Louis would be right in the mix and I'd also favor June 69 Frazier.

 

Ali, Louis and Frazier would likely beat him