Vadim Finkelstein On Brock vs Carwin

Carwins takedowns are from what I have seen are very single/double based, Overeem actually has pretty good TDD against straight leg takedowns.

 

I agree.

Important YES, entertaining YES............but not a good fight for an MMA fan. I saw allot of holes and weaknesses in both men. If it was an amature bout then then it would also be entertaining and the F ups forgivable, but because it was for a championship belt the display was very disapointing. It also highlighted the success of the UFC in undeserved hyping up the fight and the fighters.

Did you notice that all of your clips were in round 2 of the fight? were Carwin gassed out badly and could hardly move and defend himself? In round 1 Carwin easily stuffed up Brocks take down attempt and pelted him with punches, however in round 2 Carwin simply gave up the fight...................something about an ALL BODY CRAMP.

As a top 10 fighter in MMA and one of the highest paid, shouldnt Lesnar supposed to know how to do a simple choke, know how to punch, know how to defend himself and know how to kick without looking at his corner for instructions on the basics?

It was a triangle but it was far from textbook perfect :rofl:rofl:rofl.

 

He clearly does know how to perform a choke, but why on earth would you not listen to your corner for advice? That is the sign of a good fighter, being willing to learn.

It wasn't as smooth as when Jacare does it, but it was fundamentally sound, any teacher would be proud to see their student do it.

Also "All body cramp" (who knows if that is even true?) or not, it was a great set up for a takedown.

In the first round he wasn't changing levels enough because normally he can power double a guy from a relatively high position, in the second he moved Carwin's head up and back with that jab and then got a deep shot in.

You make it sound like getting rocked once makes him a bad fighter for the rest of his career.

When Overeem got rocked and ran, does that make him an amateur?

Keep in mind, you think that Overeem would destroy Brock and Carwin, keep that in mind.

Now, let's look at some of the situations where Overeem was in trouble, trouble not nearly as bad as Brock mind you.

Exhibit A: Overeem gets rocked by Chuck and runs away

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Exhibit B: Overeem gets rocked (not even rocked, just hurt) by Kharitonov and runs away

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Exhibition C: Overeem is unable to sustain ground and pound from Shogun, whereas Lesnar was able to sustain it for longer from a bigger guy, in a worse position

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Exhibition D: Overeem just quitting when Arona got him down
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR2x_8gQpfw[/ame]



So thats 4 situations where Overeem did not handle a bad situation nearly as well as Lesnar; in fact he lost them all, whereas Lesnar came back to win.

So you call Lesnar an amateur for getting hit and running, even though he came back to win, but forget that the guy you think would beat him essentially either gave up or couldn't hack it in 4 situations that were nowhere near as bad as the situation Brock was in.

Every single one of those four situations shows bigger holes in his game than Brock did in his fight against Carwin; every last one of them.

So explain the double standard?

 

The old Overeem is a shadow of his former self, has challenged himself and sought out the best kickboxers in the business. Unlike Carwin those guys also are proven and wont gass out in the first 4 minutes. If Carwin didnt gass out then Lesnar would have been dead meat. Also look at those punches, far better than what Carwin was throwing. Also theres no double standards here, those losses gave Overeem a suspect chin but the guy hasnt been KO'ed or even lost for ages now in MMA. However unlike Brock Lesnar, Overeem HAS fought the best of the best kickboxers........not just an MMA fighter with average boxing.

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And Lesnar has wrestled the best wrestlers, what makes Overeem's K1 any more relevant? You mean to tell me Badr Hari doesn't gas rather quickly?

The point is you call out brock for reacting badly, when it was a one time thing in a fight he won.

With Overeem it was at least 4 and he lost all of them, badly.

You're whole point is that Lesnar could't handle a tough situation, the fact is he did, he won. Overeem lacked the ability to come back once out of 4. You say Lesnar made a "amateur" mistake, well he made 1 and won the fight, Overeem made 4 and lost 4 fights.

Showing how severe the beating in the middle of round 1 was just helps my argument, Brock withstood that and won, Overeem couldn't take 10 seconds of Shogun or Arona, both much smaller, and Arona much less known for damaging GnP.
Overeem got KO'd when he got rocked, Lesnar came back and won, see a theme here?

So really, what is it that you find that Overeem has shown he won't make mistakes or that he will be able to recover, because all evidence is to the contrary.

 

Lesnar has a history of reacting bad to punches. ex the mir II fight.

Lesnar may have won but it wasnt impressive. I am glad that we got to see lesnar add a submission victory here, because to be honest I didn't think he was capable of that.

If you watch that fight it is hard to say that brock lesnar is the best hw in the world right now. unfortunately their is no one at the moment to rank above him except maybe werdum.

 

Textbook triangle .....seriously are you dana white?

I'm being serious though - do you genuinely believe brock actually has any serious skill besides being a behemoth? I'm not being disingenuous - I believe he can brawl and grapple well and this coupled with his size exponentially increases his chances of winning against someone like carwin who after that first round looked like he couldnt punch his way out of a wet paper bag.

 

So you believe he can grapple well, and you go out of your way to seperate that from his size, but you then don't think he has skill.

Well if he has no skill, how can he grapple well?

When I say textbook I mean "they way he was tought" not "awesome, slick, unbelievably smooth" I mean he learned it well, not that he is as good at it as Jacare.

Also, they way he had a sort of quarter nelson in Mir's half guard is a sign that yes, he knows what he is doing on the mat.

He is good, he is getting better.

 

Brock Lesnar's wrestling = collegate level
Overeem's kickboxing = international level

Brock has ran away from strike before, against inferior strikers. Overeem also ran away from them but were against better strikers.

No Carwin gassed, Brock was lucky. Everyone knows that.

Against Shogun Overeem was a lightweight compared to who he is how, he admitted that his weight cutting was hampering his performance and was making him ill, hence the decision to go to HW. The last time Overeem lost was against Badr, and compared to Carwin this guy is a far far far better striker. Against Badr, Brock wouldnt last 20 seconds.

 

Brock can grapple (wrestling is afterall grappling) but not as well rounded as those guys who also know submissions. So far Brock hasnt shown any except one submission, so no Brock isnt that good.

Yeah I also do suspect you to be Dana, just by how you carry on.

 

:huh Pulling stuff out of your ass I see Go back and fold your tapout shirts fanboy.:good

 

Stop talking like your some knowledgeable fanboy when you didn't even know Rogers/Fedor was for the WAMMA title. Your just some clown who repeats the same lame insults everytime you get challenged for your recycled zuffa hate. Come up with something new for christsakes. Sorry to take away your only ammo but I don't wear any of that Tapout stuff either :deal