Valuev vs current top 10 fighters?

Depends how old Valuev version and in what condition.
Valuev was large bloke if compere to 250-270 lbs HW boxers, really huge bloke.
Younger versions might had hugged him and steam rolled Wilder to another universe.

Haye was very small target and while being 217 lbs then I think had packed not less 1 punch power than A.J.
He had old over the hill Valuev and had f****ed his hands on him while did not had get uncle down and even didn't had made bloke to get be dizzy.
Everyone remembers boxers from their last fights only.

Yeah, vs these 2 Valuev versions a lot of top 10 HW and CW boxers might had won decision, why not.
On the same Haye he barely had landed during 12 rounds.

 

He might beat Parker. Everyone else clobbers him easily.

 

The current crop of HWs is relatively strong. Valuev was active during the worst HW era in recent history and didn't even do that well. He lost to an ancient Holyfield and put on a chicken dance vs Haye in an uncompetitive fight. He probably beats Chisora and Hunter. On a good day, he could get a robbery win vs Parker or Ortiz but he most definitely loses to everybody else on this list.

 

Chisora didn't fight almost any of the guys you listed.

 

I think his poor punctuation has altered the meaning of what he posted. I think he's say Chisora shouldn't be included among those listed by OP as those names he listed are better.

 

That's how I read it, too, TBH.

I disagree, I think he does belong up there - some of his losses were to his credit (he did well against Parker and Whyte, for example) and getting toyed with by Fury doesn't automatically count him out of the top ten either (else you'd have to eject Wilder too)...

Delboy's a difficult customer for most fighters and he's done more in his career than some guys who get a much easier ride when it comes to reputation - he's done far more than Ortiz for example, but you'll find some people rating Ortiz as borderline elite (top 5, which he's never had the record to back up) whilst nobody argues that Chisora is better than a gatekeeper (myself included).

 

He really doesn't. Pulev should be on there before Chisora. Beat Chisora comfortably, is younger that Ortiz, has a better resume than Ortiz, and lost to better fighters than Ortiz.

Near perfect summary

 

I can go with that, sure.

Arguably Chisora is as good now as he's ever been, where Pulev IMHO isn't... Then again, he's done more.

On that metric, though, Chisora has done far more than Joyce, beat Takam better than Joyce did, etc.

Could go several ways on it, but to say Chisora is a joke and doesn't belong in the conversation when naming a bunch of guys who aren't remotely close is a joke, as is making Ortiz an automatic pick when he's done next to nothing.

 

Definitely, @It's Ovah hits the nail on the head with almost all of that.

Joyce I'm not convinced (hasn't fought anyone better than gatekeeper level, I'm not backing him with Valuev until he's done more) and I don't think Hunter losing would be close enough to be controversial, but otherwise pretty much how I'd see it likely going down.

 

I see it a bit differently. I compared Pulev to Ortiz because they both have 2 losses on their record. Chisora has lost 11 times. Joyce is unbeaten. And whereas I would definitely agree that Chisora stopped Takam more definitively than Joyce did (I was critical of the stoppage), Takam was comfortably beating Chisora, whereas he was pretty much done against Joyce when the stoppage came.

But I agree with your last point, it is unreasonable to dismiss Chisora out of hand. But I think he is top 15 rather than top 10. And the OP listed a top 11, so I assume he took the Boxrec rankings, and switched #11 Pulev with Chisora.

 

Fair... And I'd agree that Pulev belongs far higher up any list than Ortiz does.

For that matter, I'd find it difficult to rate Ortiz above Chisora - that might upset a few people who insist on rating Ortiz because it boosts Wilders fragile resume, but Ortiz really has done remarkably little.

Whilst true, I also think it's fair to look at losses and see whether there's anything to credit from them...

Some of Chisora's losses show a fighter completely out of his depth (against some of the best available at the time) - fights proving he's not Vitali level or Fury level are fine, there's a long way between being incapable of hanging with those guys and being irrelevant.

But then some show him a live dog against guys who would be difficult to argue against as top ten - he wasn't far off beating Parker or Whyte, for example.... I can't read too much from the Usyk fight because then I'd be using Usyk to rate Chisora when the only metric by which to judge Usyk at heavy is Chisora (circular reasoning).

11 losses is a lot, but part of that is that Chisora doesn't duck to try to protect his record against further losses, he takes fights he's the underdog in and sometimes does better than expected - I can respect that.

Joyce... I'm just not buying the hype right now - he looks decent, but his best wins just aren't all that and he's not got all that long to correct it, he might belong up there but there's not much evidence available to back it up, yet.

That's fair, and it doesn't take much difference in sensible judgement to get there.

Boxrec is a joke, but then so are lots of public lists and rankings...