Valuev vs Toney: who wins?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by ChrisPontius, Dec 25, 2008.


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  1. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    Valuev certainly looked very beatable in the Holyfield fight, but i'd pick him to beat Toney for the following reasons:


    -Holyfield won almost all, if not all, of the early rounds by constantly being on his toes and staying away from the big Russian, outside of landing a few shots. Toney has never been fast on his feet and at 230lbs, he is basically stuck in the mud, which is why even Peter, when he was in decent shape, shut him out in the rematch.

    -Toney is only 5'9 while Holyfield is 6'2. Although that didn't matter much when they fought, those five extras inches count extra hard when you have a 7 foot target.

    -Toney is most effective as counter puncher, but as consequence of the former two points, Valuev is going to shoot that pretty fast and very long jab from the outside, while Toney lacks the footspeed or height to effectively counter on a consistent basis.

    -Valuev's workrate is actually pretty good, when his opponent isn't going backwards too much. And we know Toney won't run. James' workrate on the other hand, is very low at HW, rarely above 40 punches a round and ostly around 30. This will make it hard for him to win rounds.

    -Toney recently struggled or should've lost to with a journeyman and a fringe contender in Batchelder and Oquendo. Now, Valuev didn't exactly shine against Holyfield, but at least Holyfield himself was more convincing against Oquendo and put fighters of the level of Batchelder away.
     
    ChrisPontius, Dec 25, 2008
    ChrisPontius, Dec 25, 2008
    #1
  2. ali's jockstrap

    ali's jockstrap Member Full Member

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    cant argue with that analysis
     
    ali's jockstrap, Dec 25, 2008
    ali's jockstrap, Dec 25, 2008
    #2
  3. TFFP

    TFFP The Eskimo

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    I would say Valuev.

    Maybe a lot of people won't agree with that considering how shitty he just was, but I think the real key difference is in the movement and legs. Holyfield even at his age showed a lot of lateral movement. It really highlighted how slow Valuev is and ineffective at cutting off the ring.

    I really don't see this problem against Toney. He is extremely, and I mean stuck in glue...stationary. Somebody needs to check him and see if he has flat feet. That means Valuev can catch up with him and get into range with his jab, which is his best weapon. Then he brings the activity level that will win him rounds.

    Toney has his moments with his handspeed too, practically anybody can against Valuev but I don't see him doing enough.
     
    TFFP, Dec 25, 2008
    TFFP, Dec 25, 2008
    #3
  4. guncho

    guncho next champion! Full Member

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    I must say I think Toney would have a good chance but most likely Valuev by MD!
     
    guncho, Dec 25, 2008
    guncho, Dec 25, 2008
    #4
  5. 1Kolijn

    1Kolijn Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Valuev by decision.. but NOT because he's a good fighter Toney is just too damn fat and slow now a days.. Haye KILLS valuev though!
     
    1Kolijn, Dec 25, 2008
    1Kolijn, Dec 25, 2008
    #5
  6. JoeAverage

    JoeAverage Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Valuev by wide UD.
     
    JoeAverage, Dec 25, 2008
    JoeAverage, Dec 25, 2008
    #6
  7. Monticello

    Monticello Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Valuev. It looks like Toney might be completely finished.
     
    Monticello, Dec 25, 2008
    Monticello, Dec 25, 2008
    #7
  8. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    I'll tell you who loses. Us.
     
    Sweet Pea, Dec 25, 2008
    Sweet Pea, Dec 25, 2008
    #8
  9. DbesoFresh

    DbesoFresh New Member Full Member

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    ..../clap
     
    DbesoFresh, Dec 25, 2008
    DbesoFresh, Dec 25, 2008
    #9
  10. 1lehudson

    1lehudson Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Valuev is ass........Like Holy toney would beat him, but the fight would ben in Europe so Valuev like most of his past 10 fights will be handed a fight he didnt win.
     
    1lehudson, Dec 25, 2008
    1lehudson, Dec 25, 2008
    #10
  11. WiDDoW_MaKeR

    WiDDoW_MaKeR ESB Hall of Fame Member Full Member

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    Valuev.
     
    WiDDoW_MaKeR, Dec 25, 2008
    WiDDoW_MaKeR, Dec 25, 2008
    #11
  12. Heavyrighthand

    Heavyrighthand Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think Toney is 5 foot 10.5, or so.

    But I think he's too small to deal with Valuev, even though his skills, even at 41, are probably still ten times what Valuev's are.

    The size disadvantage and immense weight leaning on him would be too much for Toney to deal with.

    But can you imagine the staredown for these two?
     
    Heavyrighthand, Dec 25, 2008
    Heavyrighthand, Dec 25, 2008
    #12
  13. RightCross

    RightCross Grandmaster of Boxing Full Member

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    A toney of only 70 professional fights and in his 30's deals with valuev handily with fast counter rights over valuevs jab. Valuev would not be able to cleanly land on James at all 10 fights ago. After 80 pro fights and 40 years old and 240 lbs and way over weight I say its about 50/50.

    Toney even lazy ass fat toney of 80 pr fights woudl win some rounds and almost all the early rounds.
     
    RightCross, Dec 25, 2008
    RightCross, Dec 25, 2008
    #13
  14. pauliemayweathe

    pauliemayweathe Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    sad that this is actually a tough question right now....
     
    pauliemayweathe, Dec 25, 2008
    pauliemayweathe, Dec 25, 2008
    #14
  15. Suge Green

    Suge Green Boxing Junkie banned

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    I won't argue with that.

    If James was in the form he was prior to the second Peter bout, he would deal with NicoLIE ValueLESS without difficulty.
     
    Suge Green, Dec 25, 2008
    Suge Green, Dec 25, 2008
    #15
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