Vasiliy Lomachenko Vs. Floyd Mayweather Jr. @ Lightweight — Who Wins?

A fight doesn't have to be "easy" for a fighter to win it comfortably. See Usyk-Fury II. Usyk didn't have an "easy" go of it, but he he did win by a comfortable margin (4 rounds). Likewise, Haney generally controlled the fight and won comfortably, even if he had a rough moment here or there.

I don't believe Haney won the Loma fight, so with all due respect my guy, I have no interest in why you think he did. What I do know, however, is that Haney's length and jab--not his supposed slickness--impacted Loma's offense, which incidentally was my original and only point.

On Mayweather we agree. I never suggested that Floyd struggled with slick fighters. Nor did I claim Loma beats Floyd at 135lbs, quite the opposite in fact. (At 130, however, I think Loma gives Floyd everything he can handle).

 

I don't think 7-5, 8-4 while getting tagged consistently is comfortable, Haney still struggled against a mediocre southpaw. Loma dismantled Nakatani who gave Lopez problems with his long jab and height, based on that the main issue wasn't Haneys range advantage, he had good feet, made Loma miss a lot looking back at the fight, went to the body the 1st half. It would be a very competitive fight at 130, i wouldn't go that far though

 

Two different level of operators.

Floyd comfortable UD. Could force a stoppage late if he wanted it.

 

Did Haney dominate Diaz? No.

But don't conflate not dominating with struggling. By your own admission, Haney might very well have won 8 rounds (8 or 9 in my opinion). That isn't "struggling " unless your definition of the word is so elastic as to mean whatever suits your argument.

The Nakatani fight was something of an anomaly for Loma. Of course, Nak is not nearly as athletic or fluid as Haney and Ortiz, nor is his jab as sharp as Haney's. So it's no surprise that the effect of Nak's length/reach would not be as pronounced on Loma's offense. But you already knew that.

Again, I never suggested length was the only reason Loma wasn't as efficient offensively against Haney. I thought Haney boxed exceptionally well that night and showed more wrinkles that I thought he had. Rather, I noted--- and you've done nothing to disprove this observation--that it was Haney's length and reach that troubled Loma, not his supposed slickness. That we're no longer debating that supposed slickness is evidence of progress.

I'll take your opinion of Loma-Floyd at 130 under advisement.

 

Seems like Floyd knew how to win and Loma finds a way to lose.

 

Winning 8 rounds (arguable) doesn't mean he didn't struggle in the fight many of Haneys shots were hitting glove, he was uncomfortable when forced and punched on the ropes, got hurt to the body and wobbled by a left.

Of course it is lol. Even if Loma won he missed much more than you think, and Haney fought him in the pocket and landed more combinations and counter-punches than you think. I'm watching it atm

 

I've heard for years people say Loma lost to Lopez because of size.

Those who truly believe that, must believe he isn't a great fighter at LW.

Floyd would have every advantage over Loma at LW. He'd be the bigger man, the faster man, the more durable man and the harder hitter.

Loman won't ever get past the jab of Floyd.

Very boring UD victory, where maybe Loma takes the first couple of rounds.

Haney took 5 rounds off Loma, Lopez took 7, Linares dropped him.

I don't see Loma being able to replicate Castillo/Maidana and pressure him effectively.

Floyd on points.

 

Like I said, your definition of "struggle" is conveniently expansive enough to suit your argument. Haney won 8 rounds, maybe 9. I guess he had to pitch a shutout to win convincingly enough for you.

Yes, unlike in his other fights with similarly sized opponents, Loma had much less trouble with Nakatani's size and length. So, yes, that would be anamolous. I also articulated why I think that fight transpired as it did.

You have no idea how many combinations or counterpunches I think Haney landed because I've never weighed in on that topic. That said, did I not acknowledge that Haney boxed very well that night?? Boxing well is one thing,; winning the fight is quite another.

I've watched the Haney-Loma fight 3-4 times, my guy. You aren't going to change my mind, so spare yourself (and, more importantly, me) the keystrokes.

 

Similarly sized opponents such as ? Loma stopped Linares and Lopez's power, speed was the biggest issue, not necessarily his height and reach. Campbell was 9-3'd

It wasn't anywhere near a shut out considering the fight was at best 8-4 with multiple close rounds and Haney getting hurt throughout the fight.

 

Similar sized opponents....ummmm...how about one of the fighters you just mentioned? Jorge Linares.

Yes, Loma stopped Linares, after getting dropped and while down on one scorecard and tied on another. I don't think invoking the Linares fight made quite the point you had hoped it would. LOL

Oh, and Loma-Linares-, not Haney-Diaz, is what struggling with an opponent looks like.

Don't twist this back-and-forth into something it's not.

I merely argued that Haney's length and reach troubled Loma's offense, not his slickness. Period. And nothing you've offered thus far, other than acknowledging that Haney isn't in fact slick ( an odd concession since it was the basis of your argument that I originally objected to), has forced me to reconsider.

I never, for instance, suggested that reach and length was somehow Loma's kryptonite. Indeed, that would be an odd proposition to make, considering that I believe he beat Haney. Rather, I observed that the combination of length and reach has troubled Loma in the past and provided examples (Ortiz, Haney, and yes, Linares).

Read more carefully, my guy. I didn't claim Haney shut out Diaz. I noted, sarcastically, that scoring a 12-0 shutout was perhaps the only way to escape your very elastic definition of "struggling," since winning 8-9 rounds was enough. lol

I replied first, so feel free to have the last word. Otherwise, HAPPY NEW YEAR, my guy, and no hard feelings.

 

Linares never outboxed chenko he just timed him

Lol

He didn't win 9 clear rounds. Maybe 7 clear rounds. A few rounds in there were tight and Haney was hurt or rocked several times. Tough fight for Haney even if he won it clear. A 9/3 fight can be highly competitive and hard on the winner lol it's a weird argument to say Haney didn't struggle with Diaz.

The entire point was his distance management couldn't even dominate a mediocre pressure fighter like Diaz and he didn't win without a struggle, getting rocked and forced on the ropes. I agree to an extent Haneys size allowed him to be competitive, but what actually scored for Haney were the bodyshots and making Loma miss some of his scoring shots. Look at the stats, Haney threw almost twice the powerpunches against Loma compared to Prograis, probably because he felt he could bully Loma. He was fighting Loma in the pocket, counter punching and throwing more power shots than you remember. I really think Loma should've stepped on the gas earlier, that was the biggest problem here

 

I guess we're doing this the hard way.

1) No, Haney did not throw "almost twice the power punches" against Loma as he did against Prograis. Haney threw 217 power punches against Prograis and 172 against Loma. Maybe in millennial math 217 is almost twice as much 172, but out here in the real world, it's no where close to double (which would be 344 punches). So, over the course of 12 rounds, Haney threw a whopping 3.75 more power punches per round against Loma than against Prograis. Yeah, that's some meteoric uptick in power punching activity, my guy. LOL

2) Haney was throwing so many power shots against Loma because he felt he could bully him? Interesting supposition, considering Loma threw 159 more punches than Haney in total and nearly 100 more power punches. So the guy who was supposedly doing the bullying threw nearly 100 less power shots than the guy getting bullied? You might want to reconsider that.

3) You laughed when I suggested Loma struggled with Linares, yet Linares landed nearly 100 more punches (207 to 110) than Haney did against Loma in two fewer rounds. Linares evidently has some kind of timing. And so, again, if we're to believe you, Loma didn't struggle with Linares, a fight he was down on one card and tied on another, but Haney did with Diaz (despite winning 8-9 rounds). Good luck squaring that circle.

4) According to you, Haney was bobbing & weaving, ripping body shots, counterpunching like a boss, and firing off these combinations that I apparently missed. You know who else missed it? The punch stat folks, because Haney only landed 110 punches against Loma. 110. But do tell me again about all the great combinations and counterpunches Haney was landing that I (and apparently everyone else) don't remember.

 

I don't think SFW/LW Floyd was that big, he kinda ballooned up in his mid 20s. Loma faced Haney towards the end of his career and to be honest, I thought he was a superior fighter anyway, just took too many rounds off.

It'd be a young, inexperienced Floyd also. Floyd definitely has the better tools since he was ultra-fast and had some power in his younger years but Loma is too tricky with his angles and feet to just run over + Floyd was willing to be more aggressive rather than just pot-shot. I'd favour Floyd but in a hard closely fought fight.

 

Linares threw 300 more punches, and a lot of Linares punches were caught on the glove, i scored it 6-3 before Loma stopped him He struggled but won decisively, dominated Campbell and no, I'm not going to ignore him smashing Nakatani. His reach is the same as Haney's and he's taller.

I said he threw more powerpunches because he felt he could bully him, i never said he bullied him, he was on the front foot far more against Loma despite knocking down Prograis so the point still stands.

I was referring to punches thrown, so you're attacking nothing for half the text.

Lomachenko landed 125 punches by those same stats, but threw almost 30% more. Haney was more accurate and made Loma miss more punches, Regardless i didn't see Haney's reach being any more of a problem than his feet or his defense.

 

Floyd was a much bigger LW than Loma. And he wasn't inexperienced at all, he was a 2 division world champion.

It will be a hard fight, but Loma won't have an answer for Floyd's jab.