Vasyl Lomachenko vs Tony Canzoneri

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by roughdiamond, Feb 12, 2019.



  1. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

    18,440
    9,487
    Jan 30, 2014
    Based on what? I know this is the classic forum but I just don't get the train of thought that makes "ATGs" invincible against explosive, powerful world-class athletes with impressive pedigrees. One thing to favor Canzoneri because you like his resume, but what would make you think that Davis is child's play for him? I think Davis would probably be a very dangerous opponent for Canzoneri. But this is all beside the original point that Reznick and I were discussing--Davis' (relatively) low guard.
     
    Pat M likes this.
  2. Pat M

    Pat M Active Member Full Member

    1,424
    3,313
    Jun 20, 2017
    How much of Canzoneri have you seen? Lomachenko's pro career is well documented on video. In addition he fought some of the best fighters in the world in his international amateur career.

    Tank Davis is so much quicker and stronger than Canzoneri that you could make the money back that you would lose betting on Canzoneri by selling advertisement on the soles of Canzoneri's shoes. That would be the view you'd be seeing within a round.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2019
  3. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

    9,600
    17,681
    Jul 25, 2015
    It was hyperbole.

    I definitely don't think Davis is dangerous for Canzoneri though, outside of a possible punchers chance, which is also low. Davis is not as skilled as Canzoneri. Canzoneri fought great, proven fighters at higher weightclases (hell, he was unlucky to not get a verdict over Barney effin Ross at 140lb) and was only kod once, in his last fight against Bummy Davis, a huge puncher who competed at even higher weight class. Jimmy Mclarnin couldn't KO him, and he was a much more proven puncher, and Canzoneri was past it even then. Canzoneri still won.

    What has Davis done to compare?
     
  4. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

    18,440
    9,487
    Jan 30, 2014
    What exactly would you need to see from Lomachenko? (sincere question) I assume you're referring to his resume, since we've all probably seen a lot more actual fight footage of Lomachenko than Canzoneri. For better or worse, I think we more or less know what he brings to the table at this point. And he's never going to have a resume remotely as extensive as Canzoneri's.
     
    George Crowcroft and Bukkake like this.
  5. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

    9,600
    17,681
    Jul 25, 2015
    What can you show to prove Davis was much quicker, stronger, more explosive? He is definitely not as skilled, thats for sure.

    Also Canzoneri fought, hurt and KOd guys of a higher level than Davis, at higher weight classes. Whereas Davis won't even fight the best fighters around his weight class to prove these claims about him.

    You telling me that several knowledgable people here think Loma - Canzi is a close fight, yet Davis of all people would blow him out? Ludicrous.

    And dont tell me Davis beats Lomachenko.
     
  6. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

    18,440
    9,487
    Jan 30, 2014
    Davis is a very dangerous puncher. He's an explosive, well-trained athlete with excellent hand speed and power. He closes distance very quickly and can land very powerful punches when he seems to be well outside of his punching range. I think this is a recipe for a potentially very dangerous fight for a smaller opponent who keeps a very low-guard, no matter how accomplished or savvy he is, or how long his resume.
     
  7. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

    9,600
    17,681
    Jul 25, 2015
    What makes you think Davis is bigger? He's listed as 5'5 1/2,an inch taller than Canzoneri, and it is probably an exaggeration. Some people have stated he is more like 5'3! Canzoneri has also competed at higher weigh classes against men who are not only bigger, but are ATGs. Tank is not a proven puncher like Mclarnin, nor is he as skilled as Barney Ross. Mclarnin is one of the hardest punchers ever P4P.
    Pedraza is a good scalp, but nowhere near the level that Canzoneri fought repeatedly, and won against frequently.

    Loma vs Canzoneri is a very interesting fight. Tank vs Canzoneri isn't.
     
  8. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

    9,600
    17,681
    Jul 25, 2015
    Mclarnin could do all these things better than Davis, and was bigger than him.

    I think you may have pre conceptions in regard to old timers and styles.

    When someone like Josh Kelly (who isn't in Canzoneri's stratosphere as a fighter) fights hands down, it's 'athletic' or 'matrix'.

    When Canzoneri does it, its 'vulnerable' and 'poor technique'.
     
  9. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

    18,440
    9,487
    Jan 30, 2014
    When have I ever complimented someone like Josh Kelly for fighting with his hands down?

    And what’s your basis for saying that McLarnin could do all of those things better than Davis? Any footage you’d recommend in particular? Are you basing that claim on the fact that he fought men with bigger names?
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2019
  10. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

    9,600
    17,681
    Jul 25, 2015
    Mclarnin has an odd style, like canzoneri, which can be off-putting first time you watch him (it was for me).
    However, if you keep watching him, you'll see his skill.
    There is also an interesting thread up about Mclarnins resume.
    Heres some videos:

    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=haIsIfEppJI
    Also an interesting related video for more context:
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WnfSMypC5z8
     
  11. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

    9,600
    17,681
    Jul 25, 2015
    Incase it didn't load:
    This content is protected
     
  12. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

    18,440
    9,487
    Jan 30, 2014
    Thanks, but how do these films show that he does all of the things that I mentioned above better than Davis does?
     
    Pat M likes this.
  13. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

    9,600
    17,681
    Jul 25, 2015
    Before I answer, can I ask:
    Do you think Davis is a better fighter than Mclarnin?
     
  14. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

    18,440
    9,487
    Jan 30, 2014
    I don't know who's better.

    I wish we could put one of them into a time machine and find out. But it's certainly not obvious to me that someone who fights like this would survive against Davis, let alone beat him:
    https://streamable.com/z4yel
     
    Golden_Feather99 and Pat M like this.
  15. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

    9,600
    17,681
    Jul 25, 2015
    What do you consider a skilled boxer then? Someone fundamental, perhaps?

    There were plenty of fighters who were perfect textbook that McLarnin beat, including Ross who is P4P top 20 and solid H2H. He also beat benny Leonard. If there was something wrong with Mclarnins boxing, these two would've really exploited it, but they couldn't, and lost instead.
     
    PhillyPhan69 likes this.