Very Good Or Great? Volume 1: Sean Sherk

Discussion in 'MMA Forum' started by horst, Aug 13, 2011.


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  1. horst

    horst Guest

    Greetings MMA posters,

    this is the first in a series of threads I'll make on this forum, basically ripping off the excellent Classic Forum boxing poster Boxed Ears, who has a series in the Classic called 'Very Good Or Great', where he asks regulars whether they consider some fighters to merit the description 'great' fighters, or whether they are merely 'very good'.


    http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=221577


    I think a good choice for the inaugural MMA version would the 'Muscle Shark' himself, Sean Sherk.


    Some relevant info about Sean:


    - Sherk
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    , and defended it once, before he was stripped for failing a drug test. Still, the failed drug test did not apply to the fight where he won the title, so he was a legitimate champion for a brief period.

    - Sherk
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    He has a draw with Kiuma Kunioku on his record from Pancrase in 2001, a guy Sherk never met in the cage again, but other than that he has only lost to the very very best. The losses to Hughes and GSP were above Sherk's best weight, and
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    - The most important factor is of course resume, the guys Sherk has beaten. Make your assessment of this list:

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    - UFC, 2006 -
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    - UFC, 2006 -
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    - UFC, 2008 -
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    - UFC, 2010 -
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    - UFC, 2007 -
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    - Reality Submission Fighting, 2001 -
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    - Reality Submission Fighting, 2000/2001 -
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    - Other factors to consider:

    Current record is
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    from 41 fights / 8 KO/TKOs, 13 submissions,
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    /
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    , no submissions losses.

    Sherk's record reached a superb 31-1-1 before he met St Pierre and Penn within three years in the UFC.

    Sherk's record in the UFC is 8-4, his other 29 fights were in smaller organizations.




    I look forward to your verdicts and explanations, and hope to continue this series shortly :bbb
     
    horst, Aug 13, 2011
    horst, Aug 13, 2011
    #1
  2. Primate

    Primate Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I'm gonna go with very good.

    He beat some other very good fighters, and he lost to the greats that he faced.

    He was an amazing submission grappler for the best part of his career, but towards his 'later' career, where he picked up some of his best wins, he was mostly decisioning people, and even more recently he seems content to brawl with people, which is what I think cost him in the Frankie Edgar fight, and to a lesser extent the BJ Penn fight.

    Overall he was very good, a step above most, but never quite good enough to be considered one of the greats.
     
    Primate, Aug 13, 2011
    Primate, Aug 13, 2011
    #2
  3. Ai-edy2007

    Ai-edy2007 STOCKTON 209 MOTHER****ER Full Member

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    i like his cave man training.
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G61d0feaIg[/ame]
     
    Ai-edy2007, Aug 13, 2011
    Ai-edy2007, Aug 13, 2011
    #3
  4. chimba

    chimba Off the Somali Coast Full Member

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    very good then, only good now
     
    chimba, Aug 13, 2011
    chimba, Aug 13, 2011
    #4
  5. horst

    horst Guest

    Zarman has voted 'Great', but not commented. I'd really like to hear his side of the story. I don't think Sean proved to be great myself, but I'm open to being convinced, I think he is extremely close.
     
    horst, Aug 13, 2011
    horst, Aug 13, 2011
    #5
  6. Stoo

    Stoo Obsessed with Boxing banned

    25,846
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    C+ at the most
     
    Stoo, Aug 13, 2011
    Stoo, Aug 13, 2011
    #6
  7. horst

    horst Guest

    I will ask you for a little more of an explanation if that's OK?
     
    horst, Aug 13, 2011
    horst, Aug 13, 2011
    #7
  8. chimba

    chimba Off the Somali Coast Full Member

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    Not much to explain. The best thing about Sherk was his training. His so called boxing while in good form wasnt effective due to his t-rex arms. His wrestling while at the Matt Hughes level (which was enough to dominate at the time) was proven to be not nearly as effective against those who had good TD defense.

    Guy couldn't sub anything if his life depended on it.

    Basically it boils down to three things.

    Wrestling - B
    BJJ - D-
    Striking C+

    That in my book is good or satisfactory.
     
    chimba, Aug 13, 2011
    chimba, Aug 13, 2011
    #8
  9. Stoo

    Stoo Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Id love to go into more depth, but Im saving my energy for the next Chael says something thread
     
    Stoo, Aug 13, 2011
    Stoo, Aug 13, 2011
    #9
  10. horst

    horst Guest

    But in this argument, which is about greatness and not h2h ability, consider these alternative three things:

    - he holds wins over Nick Diaz and Kenny Florian

    - he has only ever lost to high-level HOF-calibre UFC champions like GSP, Penn, Hughes and Edgar, he's never been beaten by anyone outwith this extreme level of quality

    - he has a 36-4-1 record



    Does this impact upon your view over whether he should be considered a 'great' fighter or not?
     
    horst, Aug 13, 2011
    horst, Aug 13, 2011
    #10
  11. Vic-JofreBRASIL

    Vic-JofreBRASIL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    very good....I´ll explain this later.....
     
    Vic-JofreBRASIL, Aug 13, 2011
    Vic-JofreBRASIL, Aug 13, 2011
    #11
  12. Primate

    Primate Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Dude has 13 submission wins. In his early career he was like a not-quite-as-good Matt Hughes. He used his wrestling and top control to look for a finish with subs.
     
    Primate, Aug 13, 2011
    Primate, Aug 13, 2011
    #12
  13. zarman

    zarman Guest

    I didn't realize he was a cheat so I change my vote to crap
     
    zarman, Aug 14, 2011
    zarman, Aug 14, 2011
    #13
  14. snakey112

    snakey112 Active Member Full Member

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    Cardio - A+
     
    snakey112, Aug 14, 2011
    snakey112, Aug 14, 2011
    #14
  15. Ai-edy2007

    Ai-edy2007 STOCKTON 209 MOTHER****ER Full Member

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    nanodrolane
     
    Ai-edy2007, Aug 15, 2011
    Ai-edy2007, Aug 15, 2011
    #15
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