Very good or great? Volume 10: Jersey Joe Walcott

I think he is great, don't get me wrong, see my post earlier.

But not that great, that is all I'm saying.

 

I.dunno you'd have to check on boxrec but I imagine it's about 10 pounds or so.

I hope you're not saying Louis was lighter than Walcott kurupt, that would just be telling porkies mate and I expect better than that from you.

Yeah he was below 200, but rocky and Charles were even further below 200, so as I said, a wee bit misleading.

 

Of course but Walcott's way of operating would see him get more criticism. 'Master boxer and he's getting hit by this guy'. With Louis, he does get criticised for his shuffling feet and merely adequate defense.

'Prime years' of form yes, but he was aged.

 

Especially as the footage mostly shows a lukewarm and hard to decipher counter. Coupled with the lack of true consensus with scribes I have to go with the official result as well.

 

I doubt you'll find many contemporary descriptions of him as a 'master boxer' or anything similar.
Certainly not in 1940.
And even when he was a contender and champion, late 40s/early 50s.

His shuffles and shifts were acknowledged as awkward, he was obviously quite a clever boxer, seasoned with years of experience, but more likely considered a puncher than a master boxer or defensive genius.
I think the contemporaries had him pegged more accurately than the way he's described here on ESB Classic.
The revisionism probably started when Muhammad Ali popularized the idea of 'dancing' heavyweights as superior heavyweights, but Walcott often played the role of the heavy-handed strongman in his fights.
I'm not saying he wasn't cute, but that aspect of his style has been seriously overblown, imo.

 

An off and on fighter, Walcott could be better than average, good, very good, excellent or great.

I think a dozen men defeated Walcott, so he wasn't great. The option of very good makes the most sense.

 

Look man, I know you love Louis and that makes it tough for you to look at things objectively. No matter what excuse you wanna use about not being able to view the fight.. not even of a majority.. I'm a walcott hugger.. All those can't change the fact that the CLEAR majority thought Walcott won that fight. The evidence of Walcott winning is on my side my friend, not yours and there is no way around that. When you take things to their logical conclusion Walcott comes off as probably deserving the win. When you take things further and use a better scoring system than the one used then... Walcott NO DOUBT won that fight. Just because it wasn't used then... doesn't change the fact that if it was (and it's a better system) Walcott wins that fight. Nobody is saying to reverse the decision based on current scoring.. what I am saying.. that if you judge that fight based on current scoring there is no doubt walcott won. As much as it bother you McG.. there is no getting around fact.

 

Is this thread about to go off tangent? I agree with KuRuPT's point.

 

Actually, there is kurupt.

If those rounds Louis got dropped actually were scored 10-8, Louis and his corner might have felt he was behind going into the championship rounds.

They might have fought with more urgency and with a belief it was ko jersey or lose the championship. The fight could have panned out completely differently.

As it was, it was scored on a rounds system and Louis won more rounds in a fight that was hotly contested, they had a rematch and Louis put the argument to bed.

you can't rewrite history mate.

 

I was still in the bubble of 'if we got the footage today'.

Lovely post nonetheless.

It was admittedly a horrid slapdash term on my part.

 

Ummm no because that would be making Louis do something he wasn't able to do. Luois WAS trying put away Jersey Joe the entire fight... Stop trying to act like if he was down 2 more points he's somehow going to turn it around and KO him. He was trying to do just that but couldn't and was being soundly outboxed. In case you don't remember.. in the secnod fight where he again was being outclassed.. the only reason he got the kO was because Jersey was showboating. Not because he caught with him.. or walked him down or outboxed him to the KO. Jersey joe was LITERALLY showboating and clowing Joe when he got hit by the fateful punch. So, not only is it silly to believe Joe could've done more than he was already doing.. but even if you say he could.. Jersey joe would still have to lose concentration and prob showboat to even allow that. That is way to many what if's to take that seriously. What we do know is that Louis was trying to get the KO and being soundly outboxed for his troubles. Being down 2 more points doesn't somehow lead me to believe Louis would try even harder to get a KO, let alone be succesful at doing so.

 

so if louis thought he was losing, you don't think he'd try harder for the ko?

 

Luf counters in with a Walcott-esque left :bbb