Very good or great? Volume 11: Pipino Cuevas

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Boxed Ears, May 14, 2013.


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  1. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

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    We've got a guy who came to holding a major world title from ridiculous circumstances with his age, experience and record, to be known as one of the legendary bad-intentioned uberpunchers of the sport, forcing several grown men to make muchos urinos* in their trunks, and went on the even more unlikely streak of twelve consecutive wins in major world title fights. Instead of pulling off a fluke upset and fading into obscurity, he goes to the Hall of Fame. As much as I respect that he had a great career against all likelihood and that he was a beastly little man, I've never considered him one of boxing's greats. A very worthy name for the Hall of Fame, because of what he did and how he did it, but not a great fighter, I feel.

    He was holding his/a major world title through a clear linearity (Dammit, Luf, calm down) of four other HOF fighters, three of which were obvious greats, I think, and didn't get hold of a one while his reign as a champion took place, regardless of why those fights didn't happen. I just can't hold his title reign that highly when there were top men trading off the real prize the entire time. And when he got the tremendous luck to get a shot at a superstar quality fighter during his time, as tremendously bad as the luck happened to be, with regard to the man he had to face, he did get demolished. I don't doubt that he could've pulled a big one off at some point if the fights happened with other greats in his prime. A puncher's chance couldn't possibly apply more strongly to anyone, but he didn't get an elite opponent win at any time, and wasn't dominating anything but the WBA's title really, rather than his division's best, for his albeit excellent streak of demolition job victories.

    Do you consider him to have been a great fighter? Do his accomplishments get him there, mixed with how you perceive him as a total package, at his peak?

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    *There is a good likelihood that this isn't real Spanish. I don't speak actual Spanish. It was just a guess, to be honest. I got caught up in the Mexicanness and if I've offended anyone because of it, I apologise (Hands of Iron).

    Volumes 1-10:

    Very good or great? Volume 1: Ken Norton
    To date, voted not great by 30 votes

    Very good or great? Volume 2: Ernesto Marcel
    To date, our only tie at the moment, Classic.

    Very good or great? Volume 3: Genaro Hernandez
    To date, voted not great by 32 votes

    Very good or great? Volume 4: Chris Eubank
    To date, voted not great by 32 votes-Atberry did vote

    Very good or great? Volume 5: Diego Corrales
    To date, voted not great by 51 votes

    Very good or great? Volume 6: Terry Norris
    To date, voted not great by 7 votes

    Very good or great? Volume 7: Riddick Bowe
    To date, voted not great by 33 votes, due to Liston fans, mostly

    Very good or great? Volume 8: Floyd Patterson
    To date, voted great by 7 votes

    Very good or great? Volume 9: Antonio Tarver
    To date, voted not great by 48 votes, due to sanity, mostly

    Very good or great? Volume 10: Jersey Joe Walcott
    To date, voted not great by two votes, due to KuRuPT, mostly (I kid)
     
    Boxed Ears, May 14, 2013
    Boxed Ears, May 14, 2013
    #1
  2. turbotime

    turbotime Hall Of Famer Full Member

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    Very good. Hard to see him make a top 200 list. Good puncher though.
     
    turbotime, May 14, 2013
    turbotime, May 14, 2013
    #2
  3. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

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    This content is protected
     
    Boxed Ears, May 14, 2013
    Boxed Ears, May 14, 2013
    #3
  4. Mr Butt

    Mr Butt Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Picked option ( very good )

    Although I have my doubts about that
     
    Mr Butt, May 14, 2013
    Mr Butt, May 14, 2013
    #4
  5. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    My issue with Cuevas is that he was never as good as palomino. He was certainly on that level but palomino was number 1 and Cuevas never did enough to unseat him.

    That being said he would give any welterweight hell unless they banged him out early doors. He kept his power late and threw with horrid intentions.

    He isn't what I'd consider an atg level fighter but I dont like calling hof calibre fighters any less than great .

    That being said, in the context of this series which acknowledges those on the borderline I'd have to consider him the lower tier.

    Very good it is.
     
    lufcrazy, May 14, 2013
    lufcrazy, May 14, 2013
    #5
  6. DrMo

    DrMo Team GB Full Member

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    Great

    Anyone who is that much fun to watch must be great. He broke bones, he broke fighters & his career trajectory was as wild & brutal as Pipino was in the ring.

    Look at his face here, about 40 sec in, scowling on his stool.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4wgy0PAC6k
    [yt]P4wgy0PAC6k[/yt]

    If that's not a great fighter then I've never seen one.
     
    DrMo, May 14, 2013
    DrMo, May 14, 2013
    #6
  7. turbotime

    turbotime Hall Of Famer Full Member

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    The guy fought like the same three guys over his reign, then got his arse handed to him by Hearns and Duran, the only legit Hall of Fame guys he fought. Not great.
     
    turbotime, May 14, 2013
    turbotime, May 14, 2013
    #7
  8. bladerunner

    bladerunner El Intocable Full Member

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    Great Puncher but certainly not a great fighter dont even know if i would class him as very good either.
     
    bladerunner, May 14, 2013
    bladerunner, May 14, 2013
    #8
  9. heavy_hands

    heavy_hands Guest

    bowe was greater than liston for sure, h2h and legacvy, the 2 wins of bowe over evander >>>>>> liston career
     
    heavy_hands, May 14, 2013
    heavy_hands, May 14, 2013
    #9
  10. natonic

    natonic Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Very good. Great to me is a fighter that is very well rounded and it is difficult to "gameplan" against. Cuevas was destructive, but so were Tyson and Hearns. But those guys had several more tools in their belt than Cuevas.
     
    natonic, May 14, 2013
    natonic, May 14, 2013
    #10
  11. DrMo

    DrMo Team GB Full Member

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    He fought Espada (the guy he beat to win a world title aged 18 ) 3 times but in 13 world title fights that was the only opponent he fought more than once, but other than that, spot on.

    Surely you mean ass

    Hearns was a stylistic nightmare for Pipino & he fought Duran when past his best. Leonard lost to Hearns & Duran as well, it doesn't affect his standing imo
     
    DrMo, May 14, 2013
    DrMo, May 14, 2013
    #11
  12. turbotime

    turbotime Hall Of Famer Full Member

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    I legit LOL'd
     
    turbotime, May 14, 2013
    turbotime, May 14, 2013
    #12
  13. DrMo

    DrMo Team GB Full Member

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    :lol:
     
    DrMo, May 14, 2013
    DrMo, May 14, 2013
    #13
  14. ripcity

    ripcity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    From 78-80, I'd give him a very good grade.
     
    ripcity, May 14, 2013
    ripcity, May 14, 2013
    #14
  15. heavy_hands

    heavy_hands Guest

    :rofl
     
    heavy_hands, May 14, 2013
    heavy_hands, May 14, 2013
    #15
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