Very good or great? Volume 2: Ernesto Marcel

maybe but i hardly think Marcel is the most deserving of a flippant one liner dismissal.

 

I want to apologise to everyone for this post:

Wow. What the **** was I smoking that day?! Or maybe I wasn't!

I actually feel ashamed and when I saw that post, felt a little nauseous, no joke.

 

I want to apologise to everyone for this post:

Wow. What the **** was I smoking that day?! Or maybe I wasn't!

I actually feel ashamed and when I saw that post, felt a little nauseous, no joke.

 

It deserves to keep being said. I'm disgusted with myself.

 

Thing is, I wasn't elevating Corrales. At that point I thought Chacon was a higher level Gatti but a lower level Saad :| :| :|

Chacon is both of those things; but he's still 'greater' than Corrales!

 

Don't be too hard Flea. Prime Corrales was an ATG destroyer of men, and the husk that got out of prison did not resemble the earlier Chico who was every bit as good as Arguello. Which makes Floyd beating prime Corrales a feat that even Montreal Duran marvels at.

 

I've never scored the Ford fight and no longer have my scorecard for the Cowdell fight.

Sanchez beat Cowdell close but clear though iirc with the knockdown in the 15th cementing it. Cowdell outjabbed Sanchez imo and the crouched crab-like movement coupled with the conservative output had Sanchez clutching at straws for long stretches. Sanchez just outworked him though and got marginally better as the fight went on, culminating in the knockdown. Cagey, crafty fighter, Cowdell, and the type I imagine would always be a handful if you allowed him to fight at his own pace or tried to box him too much. No punch though.

The Ford fight, however, looked perilously close to me even though I never scored it, and I know a fair few who thought Ford did enough to win. Daresay you know about Ford and what an imperious figure he was, particularly to natural counterpunchers. The height, jab, range control and fast straight punching gave Sal fits, especially early on, but Sanchez came back into it as he pressed harder and Ford became a bit sloppy and tired.

Cowdell and Ford were hardly the norm though in terms of style, so I can partially understand Sal being given some leeway there for the close nature of those fights. Castillo though was an excellent orthodox technician/pure boxer and that's why you're right about it being the most telling of the three fights. It's also telling that they all had excellent jabs, though in fairness to Sanchez, he'd hardly be the first great fighter who had trouble handling a good jab. But he does get let off the hook a bit too much with the 'he fought to an opponent's level' excuse. The man was about as consummate a professional you're likely to see and it isn't as though Cowdell, Ford and Castillo were journeymen. No way I see Sanchez taking them lightly at all. Just had the sort of trouble you'd expect a pressuring counter stylist to have when confronted with certain styles or attributes imo.

 

That was a flippant one liner? I see, in other words, you want no discussion about it...he's GREAT and that's all there is to it then, right?
Marcel joins Sumbu in the "let's just call him Great" Hall of Fame. He beat an earlier, less developed version of Alexis Arguello and you know very well what the later versions of AA would have done to Ernesto...the same thing Duran did to him.

 

Never said that at all and i'm all for differing opinions and debate, just would have preferred some reasoning from you rather than using him as a sacrifice for the old "great is thrown around too often " cliche when there are far more deserving fighters around out there.It mildy annoyed me to see him dismissed with a couple of half assed one liners.

And why are you bringing up sumbu kalambay?What does he have to do with anything here?

Who else is in this "lets just call him great" HOF Sure that's just not another name for the illustrious "red cobra doesn't like them much so gets a chip on his shoulder when others praise them" HOF

You;ve been around here long enough to know you only get away with snide one liners some of the time, other times you get called on it(we all have been at some point or other) if you don't put any reasoning behind your comments.

And no we don't know what a later Arguello would have done to him, heaven forbid some might actually feel that a point worthy of discussion and not patronising dismissal.

 

A later Arguello would certainly not done anything that Duran did to him!

Unless Cobra means he'd stop Marcel...in which case I'd have a hunch he hasn't seen the Marcel-Duran bout.

But yeah, calm down lads, eh?

Ribs, ****ing awesome post.

 

Well Arguello was getting his ears boxed off by Olivares later into his featherweight days. At what point would he have done Marcel in?

IMO, never at featherweight.

If anything he fought with more measure as he matured. I don't think that's going to do him any favours against Marcel myself.

Wouldn't be shocked if Arguello did nail him with a shot and took him out of course, but I see no need to make that a likely outcome myself....

 

I've made this point before. If anything it was after his lack of success early on that Arguello showed his first great adjustment by trying to force the fight. Then Marcel got his second wind and schooled Alexis some more.

This was an Arguello that'd starched Legra inside a round no less.

 

I just don't think Duran is a good benchmark. He didn't stop Marcel, Marcel was thrown out for tactics that Jimmy Young got away with for his whole career.