Very Good or Great? Volume 3: Ricardo Arona

Discussion in 'MMA Forum' started by horst, Aug 15, 2011.


Page 1 of 2
  1. horst

    horst Guest

    Greetings MMA posters,

    this is the 3rd in a series of threads I'll make on this forum, basically ripping off the excellent Classic Forum boxing poster Boxed Ears, who has a series in the Classic called 'Very Good Or Great', where he asks regulars whether they consider some fighters to merit the description 'great' fighters, or whether they are merely 'very good'.

    MMA Volume 1 was
    This content is protected
    , see thread:

    http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/...d.php?t=335373

    MMA Volume 2 was
    This content is protected
    , see thread:

    http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=335558



    The choice this time is Ricardo Arona.



    Some relevant info about Arona:


    - Ricardo won
    This content is protected
    and so became
    This content is protected
    . He also made it to the final of the great 16-man Pride Middleweight Grand Prix in 2005.


    - During the main stretch of his career, Arona only lost to the very best:
    This content is protected
    and
    This content is protected
    . Rampage and Shogun managed to stop him, Fedor and Wanderlei did not. Towards the end of his career, he did have a damaging KO loss to
    This content is protected
    .


    - The most important factor is of course resume, the guys Ricardo has beaten. Make your assessment of this list:

    This content is protected
    - Pride, 2005 -
    This content is protected

    This content is protected
    - Pride, 2002 -
    This content is protected

    This content is protected
    - Pride, 2005 -
    This content is protected

    This content is protected
    - Pride, 2006 -
    This content is protected

    This content is protected
    x2 - RINGS, 2000 & 2001 -
    This content is protected



    - Other factors to consider:

    His record is
    This content is protected
    , 2 stoppage wins, 3 submissions and
    This content is protected
    , with 2 stoppage defeats and
    This content is protected
    .




    I look forward to your verdicts and explanations, and hope to continue this series shortly :bbb
     
    horst, Aug 15, 2011
    horst, Aug 15, 2011
    #1
  2. greathamza

    greathamza Boxing Junkie Full Member

    10,652
    1
    Feb 14, 2011
    His resume isnt to long and his career hasnt been to long he has had about 20 fights in his whole career but he started early around 2000 and i heard he fought Eastman last year i think
     
    greathamza, Aug 15, 2011
    greathamza, Aug 15, 2011
    #2
  3. zarman

    zarman Guest

    Just look at who he has beaten, first man to beat Wanderlei Silva in Pride! How can he be considered anything other than great?
     
    zarman, Aug 15, 2011
    zarman, Aug 15, 2011
    #3
  4. Ai-edy2007

    Ai-edy2007 STOCKTON 209 MOTHER****ER Full Member

    7,542
    0
    Apr 9, 2011
    remember this
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwKpzKZOpe4[/ame]
     
    Ai-edy2007, Aug 15, 2011
    Ai-edy2007, Aug 15, 2011
    #4
  5. zarman

    zarman Guest

    zarman, Aug 15, 2011
    zarman, Aug 15, 2011
    #5
  6. Vic-JofreBRASIL

    Vic-JofreBRASIL Obsessed with Boxing

    23,559
    5,872
    Aug 19, 2010

    And that lost was very controversial....

    Arona resume is great in my opinion....he beat 2 top 10 ATG fighters, and SAku, an ATG for many posters here...Overeem is a very good win as well....his resume
     
    Vic-JofreBRASIL, Aug 15, 2011
    Vic-JofreBRASIL, Aug 15, 2011
    #6
  7. Ubersteve

    Ubersteve The Main Event Mafia Full Member

    2,414
    0
    Jun 24, 2007
    I thought the Wandy loss was debatable too. Plus against Rampage he only list to one of the greatest KOs of all time.

    Great for me, just a shame he has gone into semi retirement when he would be a legit threat to UFC belts.
     
    Ubersteve, Aug 15, 2011
    Ubersteve, Aug 15, 2011
    #7
  8. horst

    horst Guest

    Just as vivid a memory was around 8 minutes into this fight where Arona unleashed a vicious knee attack to Saku's skull, one of the most serious Pride beatdowns ever:

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy0qOZAg9Ww[/ame]
     
    horst, Aug 16, 2011
    horst, Aug 16, 2011
    #8
  9. horst

    horst Guest

    :happy:happy:happy

    This is the first of these threads to be an actual debate, with the score set at 6-6. With Sherk and Belfort, the overwhelming majority was that they were 'Very Good' only.

    Arona is a difficult case. He wasn't particularly well-rounded and didn't have great longevity, but does hold wins over three of (imo) the top 8 MMA fighters ever in Wanderlei, Henderson and Sakuraba, so it seems like he could fairly be considered a great or just a very good.
     
    horst, Aug 16, 2011
    horst, Aug 16, 2011
    #9
  10. Shogun Assassin

    Shogun Assassin Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,843
    3
    Oct 22, 2010
    But what is there is top stuff

    Wand at his peak
    Sakuraba
    Henderson
    Horn
    Mezger
    Overeem
    Ninja (Ninja was a good fighter at that time, had only lost a close fight with Hendo)
    Some would say Fedor

    What's holding me back from choosing the 'Great' option are his losses to Shogun and Sokoudjou, they weren't even competitive.

    His style would of done good in the UFC methinks.
     
    Shogun Assassin, Aug 16, 2011
    Shogun Assassin, Aug 16, 2011
    #10
  11. zarman

    zarman Guest

    Can someone explain why they voted very good?
     
    zarman, Aug 16, 2011
    zarman, Aug 16, 2011
    #11
  12. rekcutnevets

    rekcutnevets Black Sash Full Member

    13,685
    350
    May 25, 2007
    I think he would have been considered great a few years back, but guys with better resumes have emerged since. Still, he is the closest to being great of the threads Popkins has started thus far. Arona had great bjj skills, very good takedowns, and damaging leg kicks. Many consider him to be Fedor's first conqueror. Regardless of who you think won the Fedor fight, Arona dominated that fight positionally. If you go back and watch that fight, and think he didn't do enough from the top you have to consider the limitations because of RINGS' rules.
     
    rekcutnevets, Aug 16, 2011
    rekcutnevets, Aug 16, 2011
    #12
  13. zarman

    zarman Guest

    Wasn't he injured before the Sokoudjou fight? And a loss to Shogun shouldn't shadow his achievements. Look at the win / loss ratio with the fighters he fought. The fact that he was the closest fighter to beating Fedor says a lot as well.
     
    zarman, Aug 16, 2011
    zarman, Aug 16, 2011
    #13
  14. rekcutnevets

    rekcutnevets Black Sash Full Member

    13,685
    350
    May 25, 2007
    It was tough call. I would have considered him great a few years ago, but I don't think his resume reads as well as it once did. It is still better than most, but I don't know that being in my all time top 10 at 205 constitutes greatness at this point. Being in the top 10 of any weight division in boxing is a greater feat than in mma, because of the higher number of competitors. Even if you regard boxing as being at it's best beyond 1930, it still had a larger base and 8 decades of fighters to figure in. MMA has been around for less than 2 decades. Being in my top 10 in such a young sport isn't quite as impressive.

    Chuck Liddell
    Wanderlei Silva
    Shogun
    Jackson
    Couture
    Henderson

    The above can all be ranked above Arona, and he has others like Evans, Jones, and Machida that may soon surpass him.

    I used to consider him great, and defeating him was a great accomplishment; but I just have to go with very good at this point.
     
    rekcutnevets, Aug 16, 2011
    rekcutnevets, Aug 16, 2011
    #14
  15. zarman

    zarman Guest

    Everyone on that list I would also consider great. I don't really see your argument about greats not becoming so with time as more fighters surpass them. I think you have to judge a fighter for his era. What boxer was considered great but isn't any more? I personally think beating arguable the best LHW ever in his prime and being the closest to upsetting the greatest ever, along with his other wins puts him as great. Anyway I guess we will have to agree to disagree :thumbsup
     
    zarman, Aug 16, 2011
    zarman, Aug 16, 2011
    #15
Page 1 of 2