Very Good or Great? Volume 4: Rich Franklin

Discussion in 'MMA Forum' started by horst, Aug 19, 2011.


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  1. horst

    horst Guest

    Greetings MMA posters,

    this is the
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    in a series of threads I'll make on this forum, basically ripping off the excellent Classic Forum boxing poster Boxed Ears, who has a series in the Classic called 'Very Good Or Great', where he asks regulars whether they consider some fighters to merit the description 'great' fighters, or whether they are merely 'very good'.

    MMA Volume 1 was
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    , see thread:

    http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/...d.php?t=335373

    MMA Volume 2 was
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    , see thread:

    http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/...d.php?t=335558

    MMA Volume 3 was
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    , see thread:

    http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=335875



    The choice this time is Rich Franklin.



    Some relevant info about Rich:


    - Rich won
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    and
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    before losing it in the cage. Although he failed to win the title back, he did win a title eliminator in order to have that other shot.



    - Rich has never lost to lower-level opposition. His first defeat was to a natural lightheavyweight who'd go on to win UFC gold at 205,
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    . His next three losses were to ATG fighters
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    and
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    . As Rich gets further from his prime, he has also incurred losses to
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    and to the naturally larger
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    . Rich has only ever been stopped by high-level explosive strikers like Silva, Machida and Belfort.



    - The most important factor is of course resume, the guys Franklin has beaten. Make your assessment of this list:

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    - UFC, 2007 -
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    - UFC, 2009 -
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    - UFC, 2010 -
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    x2 - UFC, 2003 & 2005 -
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    - UFC, 2008 -
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    - UFC, 2004 -
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    - Other factors to consider:

    His record is
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    , with
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    , 10 submissions and 3 decisions, with
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    and
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    .




    I look forward to your verdicts and explanations, and hope to continue this series shortly :bbb
     
    horst, Aug 19, 2011
    horst, Aug 19, 2011
    #1
  2. BewareofDawg

    BewareofDawg P4P Champ Full Member

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    He's very good, or was very good. He never beat a great fighter though, never proved he could beat the elite in either division.
     
    BewareofDawg, Aug 19, 2011
    BewareofDawg, Aug 19, 2011
    #2
  3. MetalMandible

    MetalMandible Chinchecker Full Member

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    He lost to all of the tip-top elite competition he faced, therefore, merely very good.
     
    MetalMandible, Aug 19, 2011
    MetalMandible, Aug 19, 2011
    #3
  4. Stoo

    Stoo Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    The other side of the coin to Arona, arguably weaker wins but much more entertaining and well rounded.

    Rich does everything well, he just faced some guys who did one thing at a world class level, like AS,VB, & LM striking, and Hendo in wrestling and was found wanting. But always shows tremendous heart and determination

    If he only had a bit more power in his shots to get the kod, his resume would be a little better as he has excellent reach knowledge

    And if you included Chuck, why not Ken in best wins?
     
    Stoo, Aug 19, 2011
    Stoo, Aug 19, 2011
    #4
  5. horst

    horst Guest

    What is this "reach knowledge" thing I hear people mentioning on here?? I assume this is some sort of joke, do tell.
     
    horst, Aug 19, 2011
    horst, Aug 19, 2011
    #5
  6. horst

    horst Guest

    If Okami beats Silva, does Rich's win over Okami metamorphasize into a win over tip-top elite competition?
     
    horst, Aug 19, 2011
    horst, Aug 19, 2011
    #6
  7. MetalMandible

    MetalMandible Chinchecker Full Member

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    It would make me rethink that a bit but Okami isn't going to beat Silva barring something bizarre happening so it's a moot point.
     
    MetalMandible, Aug 19, 2011
    MetalMandible, Aug 19, 2011
    #7
  8. Stoo

    Stoo Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Prepare to be schooled

     
    Stoo, Aug 19, 2011
    Stoo, Aug 19, 2011
    #8
  9. horst

    horst Guest

    Something bizarre like outwrestling/outgrappling like Sonnen did, except not getting submitted?
     
    horst, Aug 19, 2011
    horst, Aug 19, 2011
    #9
  10. horst

    horst Guest

    :yikes
     
    horst, Aug 19, 2011
    horst, Aug 19, 2011
    #10
  11. horst

    horst Guest

    Is this definitely serious??
     
    horst, Aug 19, 2011
    horst, Aug 19, 2011
    #11
  12. Stoo

    Stoo Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Yes, it is :D
     
    Stoo, Aug 19, 2011
    Stoo, Aug 19, 2011
    #12
  13. BewareofDawg

    BewareofDawg P4P Champ Full Member

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    :rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl I disagree completely. I have seen GSP training. He sticks his arms straight out, closes his eyes and walks until his fingertips touch the wall. He has it down to such a science that he now can stop at the very point his middle finger is about to touch the wall. GSP is P4P Goat in Reach knowledge :deal
     
    BewareofDawg, Aug 19, 2011
    BewareofDawg, Aug 19, 2011
    #13
  14. Stoo

    Stoo Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    But he doesnt know nothing about the kod and making them bitchblike
     
    Stoo, Aug 19, 2011
    Stoo, Aug 19, 2011
    #14
  15. MetalMandible

    MetalMandible Chinchecker Full Member

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    Okami isn't Sonnen and the only thing he's better at is not getting submitted. Okami is too slow, too unexplosive, lacks a power double to get deep quick, can't chain wrestle anything like Sonnen can, and his footwork sucks.

    Now, you might wonder why I would even bring up footwork when discussing a fight that one fighter clearly doesn't want to box in but footwork is Anderson's best, and some might say only, defense to the takedown. Anderson's sprawl sucks and he can be vulnerable if an opponent can get a bodylock on him but he's avoided that situation with grapplers before because of his outstanding sense of range and his fleet feet.

    Okami is going to plod after him while Anderson befuddles him with lateral movement and quick direction changes, he's rarely going to find himself with time to set his feet for a shot, and the whole time this is happening he's going to be getting potshotted with low kicks and lead lefts down the pipe.

    I expect Okami to score a takedown or two at some point but it certainly isn't going to be the sort of stifling domination that Sonnen put down and I fully expect Okami to get beat up down the stretch for a late stoppage. A late one only because he has considerable Mandibular Fortitude.
     
    MetalMandible, Aug 19, 2011
    MetalMandible, Aug 19, 2011
    #15
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