Very Good or Great? Volume 6: Frank Shamrock

Discussion in 'MMA Forum' started by horst, Aug 19, 2011.


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  1. Stoo

    Stoo Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Yep, laying on WWs and koding shop worn legends is what makes the grade these days. Got you the 1st time:thumbsup
     
    Stoo, Aug 22, 2011
    Stoo, Aug 22, 2011
    #31
  2. horst

    horst Guest

    A win over Bas Rutten in 1994, and wins over Tito Ortiz and Jeremy Horn is better than wins over Wanderlei, Henderson and Sakuraba in Pride. Don't be selfish, spread that **** around :rasta:rasta:rasta
     
    horst, Aug 22, 2011
    horst, Aug 22, 2011
    #32
  3. horst

    horst Guest

    PS: You have managed to twist the facts and your brain into thinking that Shamrock's top wins are better than Arona's, but I very much doubt you can pull off the same weird trick with their losses.

    Arona:

    Fedor Emelianenko (razor-thin decision to the hw GOAT)
    Rampage Jackson (peak)
    Shogun Rua (peak)
    Wanderlei Silva (near/slightly past prime version of an ATG)
    Rameau Thierry Sokodjou (mediocre but dangerous fighter coming off a KO win over Little Nog)



    Frank: (I'll let you do the descriptions for Frank)

    Manabu Yamada
    Masakatsu Funaki
    Bas Rutten
    Bas Rutten
    Yuki Kondo
    Kiuma Kunioku
    John Lober
    Cung Le
    Nick Diaz

    (and that's leaving the DQ loss and the 2 draws aside)



    Come on Stoo, for **** sake. I can accept people thinking Frank was a better fighter, but arguing that he has a better resume is complete nonsense.
     
    horst, Aug 22, 2011
    horst, Aug 22, 2011
    #33
  4. Stoo

    Stoo Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Quote me where I said his resume is better? The 1st highlighted quote is from my 1st post in the thread, the 2nd is the point I was trying to make

    Are you drinking?
     
    Stoo, Aug 22, 2011
    Stoo, Aug 22, 2011
    #34
  5. horst

    horst Guest

    :lol: Are you smoking crack this evening per chance?

    If Arona has a better resume AND you believe that Arona beats Frank h2h, then what exactly is your point? You don't seem to have a leg to stand on here.
     
    horst, Aug 22, 2011
    horst, Aug 22, 2011
    #35
  6. horst

    horst Guest

    In fact, I don't know why I'm bothering to continue this. There are people I don't mind arguing with (and some I quite like arguing with), but you are neither of those Stoo. Apologies for these pissy comments over the last page or so. I respect your opinion on all things MMA. In my own opinion, Shamrock enjoys a status that his resume doesn't merit, but I accept that he had an excellent skillset at his best. That is all.
     
    horst, Aug 22, 2011
    horst, Aug 22, 2011
    #36
  7. Stoo

    Stoo Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    That wasnt the point I was tryna make that you were arguing against fella. I voted both very good, but Id have an easier time voting Frank as a great than Arona inspite of his weaker resume simply due to his skill set and impact on MMA. Even though that impact is dulled because he fought in probably the weakest era of the UFC. There was zero money in American MMA at the time

    I think Arona beats Frank at 205 due to his style, and the weight advantage he'd hold would make that style a tough ask for Frank as he's a natural 185er imo

    You have of course to put this into context of the era in which they fought. All you have to do is have a spare few days to watch UFC 1-15 then watch the difference in Shamrock's fights to everyone who went before him. It's quite clear he was the best American MMA fighter up to the point of his retirement
     
    Stoo, Aug 23, 2011
    Stoo, Aug 23, 2011
    #37
  8. James23

    James23 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Neither. By today's standards he'd be in some rinky dink organization maybe in the middle card.

    So put an option for just good and that's what I'll vote for.
     
    James23, Aug 23, 2011
    James23, Aug 23, 2011
    #38
  9. Stoo

    Stoo Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    He'd do ok it today's UFC MW division imo. I think Anderson and Vitor's striking would be too good, and Maia's BJJ is too sharp for him on the matt. But Id pick him to beat the rest
     
    Stoo, Aug 23, 2011
    Stoo, Aug 23, 2011
    #39
  10. horst

    horst Guest

    You'd back him to beat Sonnen, Mayhem and Stann?
     
    horst, Aug 23, 2011
    horst, Aug 23, 2011
    #40
  11. Stoo

    Stoo Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Sonnen by Sub, Mayhem on pts (would be toughest of the 3 thinking about it, Mayhem's work rate is immense, but he does lose his cool) and Stann is a plodder with decent power, terrible technique on the feet and the ground. Really do not get the buzz surrounding this fella, apart from his fights which are entertaining. Think Frank takes the UD again
     
    Stoo, Aug 23, 2011
    Stoo, Aug 23, 2011
    #41
  12. PivotPunch

    PivotPunch Guest

    He is great he was ahead of his time in terms of skill. Royce is also no serious fighter by today standards but was ahead of his time
     
    PivotPunch, Aug 23, 2011
    PivotPunch, Aug 23, 2011
    #42
  13. horst

    horst Guest

    I'd back Sonnen and Mayhem to beat him, but agree that Frank beats Stann. I actually quite like Stann, he's not the most refined fighter out there I agree, but it'll take a high-calibre fighter to defeat what he brings to the table at 185. I think Anderson or Vitor would handle him with ease, but not too many others.
     
    horst, Aug 23, 2011
    horst, Aug 23, 2011
    #43
  14. Stoo

    Stoo Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Sonnen, really? Not to play MMA math here, but the common opponent is Jeremy Horn who's 3-0 against Chael. Getting Frank on his back would not be too difficult for Chael, but dont see him surviving the 15 without tapping
     
    Stoo, Aug 23, 2011
    Stoo, Aug 23, 2011
    #44
  15. Moe Greene

    Moe Greene Guest

    Frank would still do well today IMO.

    He is great IMO.
     
    Moe Greene, Aug 23, 2011
    Moe Greene, Aug 23, 2011
    #45
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