Very good or great? Volume 7: Riddick Bowe

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Boxed Ears, Nov 1, 2012.


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  1. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

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    Riddick was the linear and undisputed heavyweight champion of the world, holds two victories over a lock for the HOF and for me a top ten heavyweight in then undefeated Evander Holyfield and technically takes his only loss to this man that he beat both before and after said loss, and was never stopped. Personally, I feel he's gone from a very high regard that seems forgotten about (The way Futch felt about his ability, the fact that he was rated a top ten p4p in the sport by Ring at one time, I believe Manny Steward even said he told Evander he didn't think victory was very likely when consulted, which is not something trainers do) to becoming underrated, dismissed, and not placed in the tier of heavyweight champs he deserves to be.


    Bowe holds victories over former/future/current championship names (throwing in WBO for Hide, sue me):

    1. Pinklon Thomas
    2. Tony Tubbs (I know, I know)
    3. Bruce Seldon
    4. Evander Holyfield
    5. Michael Dokes
    6. Herbie Hide
    7. Evander Holyfield (X2)

    As well as several notable names like Gonzalez, Golota x2(I know, I know), Biggs, etc. Is he judged too harshly for the Lewis debacle? Does he get enough credit for coming out the better of an astounding trilogy with true great? Was he just a very good fighter or did he break into the greatness group, when all was said and done?


    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kim2nTQI13E[/ame]



    Volumes 1-6:
    Very good or great? Volume 1: Ken Norton

    Very good or great? Volume 2: Ernesto Marcel

    Very good or great? Volume 3: Genaro Hernandez

    Very good or great? Volume 4: Chris Eubank

    Very good or great? Volume 5: Diego Corrales

    Very good or great? Volume 6: Terry Norris
     
    Boxed Ears, Nov 1, 2012
    Boxed Ears, Nov 1, 2012
    #1
  2. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Borderline great but not there yet for me. Lacks the overall resume. More dangerous h2h than his resume suggests I think - quite similar to Vitali - but vulnerable to great punchers.
     
    bodhi, Nov 1, 2012
    bodhi, Nov 1, 2012
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  3. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

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    Well, then, don't hold your breath, mate. :lol:
     
    Boxed Ears, Nov 1, 2012
    Boxed Ears, Nov 1, 2012
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  4. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    No chance of greatness. Probably a 16-20 heavyweight great, but not an all time great taking everything into account. Pretty short prime and some sub-par showings.
     
    Flea Man, Nov 1, 2012
    Flea Man, Nov 1, 2012
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  5. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Just wait for it BE, the Wlad will run out of opponents and that´s when Riddick comes back and wins the title again.
     
    bodhi, Nov 1, 2012
    bodhi, Nov 1, 2012
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  6. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Very good, but certainly no great. Besides beating Evander twice (once almost by default) his overall legacy is weak.
    On his day though, he was something to watch. Very fluid and a great infighter for such a big fellow.
     
    fists of fury, Nov 1, 2012
    fists of fury, Nov 1, 2012
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  7. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

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    I very, very, very, very deliberately did not use the phrase "all time great" because of the different connotation of that phrase. I mean great, no matter how briefly, at his best. Now, to me, if you're in the top twenty of an over 100-year-old division, I'd have to call you at least a case for borderline great, personally.

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    Boxed Ears, Nov 1, 2012
    Boxed Ears, Nov 1, 2012
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  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Very good only. Not in Liston's class.
     
    McGrain, Nov 1, 2012
    McGrain, Nov 1, 2012
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  9. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

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    :lol: For me, he's quite exactly in the exact same class. Except with far less embarrassing losses, and a better top two wins. :think...Say, maybe he isn't in his class after all. :hey
     
    Boxed Ears, Nov 1, 2012
    Boxed Ears, Nov 1, 2012
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  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    How can Bowe be in the same class with a weaker chin, less skill, worse head-movement, less power and a big ol' tum tum and glass balls?
     
    McGrain, Nov 1, 2012
    McGrain, Nov 1, 2012
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  11. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

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    Well, that's just low. :bart
     
    Boxed Ears, Nov 1, 2012
    Boxed Ears, Nov 1, 2012
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  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Seriously, where Bowe is concerned there's only one or two nights where I would pick him to do serious damage to the very best. There are loads of nights where he was sub-par or not quite so good as he sh ould be. He didn't always train like he should either. Technically, on offence, he was genuinely superb but he was also reasonably easy to draw (compared to greats) and a bit lacking on defence (both arbitrary movement and technical ability).

    He wasn't consistently brilliant to me. I rank him below Charles and Walcott and anyone below them doesn't qualify as great (anyone clearly above them does, as an aside). Could beat anyone on his night, maybe, but it's impossible for me to imagine him putting together a really serious run at the highest level. He just wasn't that type of man/fighter. I question his mentality in a similar way to Tyson's but he isn't as special as Mike.
     
    McGrain, Nov 1, 2012
    McGrain, Nov 1, 2012
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  13. salty trunks

    salty trunks Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Bowe had great skills and greatness in him, but he probably only achieved very good. He could have been a top 5 heavyweight all time, there is no denying that and most respected trainers will agree with that. The problem with Bowe wasnt his skills or intensity in the ring, it was his discipline to train and stay in top condition.
    What you see most fighters lose as they wane you never saw in Bowe and that was his sheer determination to win, even when he was in poor shape. You see a lot of fighters lose that killer instinct but Bowe never lost it, even in his beatings with Golota when he was a mere shell of his former self but still willed himself to win both fights by fighting back and making Golota quit.
     
    salty trunks, Nov 1, 2012
    salty trunks, Nov 1, 2012
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  14. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

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    Well, if you don't count wins or losses, Liston's better, for sure. I'll agree with you there. On defence, anyway. The drawing thing, I can't agree with that. I tried and I definitely had more success with Liston than Bowe.

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    There's something about Bowe's gloves I could never quite capt-...ach, never mind.
     
    Boxed Ears, Nov 1, 2012
    Boxed Ears, Nov 1, 2012
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  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I like your Bowe drawing better actually. Liston looks like he's about to unzip his face (to reveal Joe Louis, the only HW he is directly comparable to).

    Liston's gloves are AMAZING though.
     
    McGrain, Nov 1, 2012
    McGrain, Nov 1, 2012
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